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Original poster

What the hell is wrong with competition?

125 replies

Twiglett · 23/09/2006 11:46

I hate this whole ooo non-competitive sports, we're not competitive

we need to be able to teach children to play properly, to be gracious when winning, to be noble in defeat

we need to teach them how they should always do their best and people are different and have different abilities, strengths

we need to teach them that by practicing and trying hard they too MIGHT win .. or they'll certainly do better

I cannot stand the whole non-competitive ethos .. it only comes from adults

Children are the MOST competitive of all

OP posts:

MarsLady · 24/09/2006 19:02

Nothing at all!

Original poster

Twiglett · 24/09/2006 19:03

well that's certainly turning my understanding of darwinism on its head

I always understood that the best provider procreated the most

OP posts:

sorrell · 24/09/2006 19:06

Well if Ming Campbell is to be believed, 65 is 'youthful early middle age'!

sorrell · 24/09/2006 19:17

Well, yes, that's one way to put it, I suppose. Evolutionary theory is, as I understand it, that to live long enough reproduce successfully, organisms need to be as well adapted to their environment as possible. Characteristics that mean than there is less chance of surviving to reproduced get bred out, and mutations that mean you have more chance of successfully reproducing are bred into the species. eg albinism is not a useful quality for a creature that has predators and lives in a wood as it makes it likely to be spotted and eaten, so the gene does not spread. However, a moth which has markings that look most like the bark of a tree will be able to reproduce more, so that gene will become more common. And if trees get darkened by pollution, and a genetic mutation means that one moth is darker than the others and thus less visible, its darker offspring will be more likely to survive so the dark gene will spread.
There is no 'competition' as is discussed on this thread.

Original poster

Twiglett · 24/09/2006 19:21

No the competition discussed on this thread is the natural competition that many children exhibit naturally

why should it be stifled? when it can be encouraged and nurtured and used to teach grace in winning and nobility in defeat and the importance of tenacity and will to succeed

nope, don't get it

OP posts:

sorrell · 24/09/2006 19:22

I am probably extreme in my loathing of competition and I would probably have done better in many situations to get stuck in with sharper elbows, but I just can't. It makes me shudder!

FillyjonktheBananaEater · 24/09/2006 19:23

nah, I'm with you, sorrell.

FrannyandZooey · 24/09/2006 19:24

I think about 5% of our children's social behaviour is 'natural', Twig. We are all products of our environment and upbringing.

Original poster

Twiglett · 24/09/2006 19:25

you have an extremely negative view of the concept of competition though sorrell .. that surprises me slightly

OP posts:

sorrell · 24/09/2006 19:27

Well, I'm not saying a competitive spirit needs to be crushed, and I have no doubt it has its uses in the real world. I'm just not sure it needs to be encouraged that much. I believe that constantly comparing yourself to other people is a recognised source of unhappiness in life. And while competitiveness may be inherent in many children, I also think it is absolutely natural for children to do things simply for the joy of doing them - running, singing, making pictures out of sticky paper, learning to cut out shapes, reading - and I think it is more important to nurture the joy and the 'flow' than it is to make those pleasures into a competition.

sorrell · 24/09/2006 19:29

I walk away from competitive situations. I can't do them. Of course I do recognise that the twinges of envy I feel when my peers do something that I would like to have done is competitive, but I hate that too.

FillyjonktheBananaEater · 24/09/2006 19:35

here is basic problem of competativeness.

it involves comparing youself to others.

rather than just sorting yourself out.

go sorrell!

Gobbledigook · 25/09/2006 00:08

Totally with you twig

Loshad · 25/09/2006 10:24

Ursula, i'm very pro competition, and think my DS's have benefitted massively from participating in competitive sport (partic the older ones, youngers still a bit little), but I do think it's very important that they lose occasionally - stops them getting big headed, and allows them to really enjoy the next win. But the competiton extends way nejond sporting - and I am pleased that this has no rubbed off on their school work and they try harder to get better marks and higher up the class.
My Ds's school does stream sports classes anyway, so that no one gets totally mangled by the super sports kid.

joelallie · 25/09/2006 12:41

Basically agree with the original premise. Life is competitive. Kids are competitive. I am not overtly competitive because I was brought up to be a shrinking violet - I don't care for sports or competitions of any kind, but have to confess a sneaking pride when I got the highest result in our dept at work on an online logic test.... .

What matters is how you deal with the winning and the losing. More importantly how you deal with the winners and the losers. Perhaps this is best taught at school rather than if adult life. No kid is crap at everything - DS#1's teacher has finally found something he's good at in school - yep it's art so the HT has something constructive to write at the bottom of his report 'XXXX is most creative and artistic.'

expatinscotland · 25/09/2006 12:44

Bravo, Fillyjonk! GREAT post! I agree completely.

Most competitive people I've met I mainly swerved b/c they inevitably made for very dull company.

lazycow · 25/09/2006 13:05

I actually do believe competition is pretty harmful.

Unfortunately in our society it is pretty much impossible to avoid as that is how we live so unfortunately children do need to learn to deal with it the way they need to learn to deal with it.

I don't think children who lose a lot are naturally competitive. Those who win quite a lot are because - well because they win and they get a lot of pleasure from it.

Those who lose a lot just get very demoralised and often give up on competing or avoid it at all cost- I know I did, after all why do something again and again that makes you feel so bad about yourself.

Note - by competitivness I mean against other people. I have no problem with competing against yourself to improve on your personal best. That is a different thing.

Judy1234 · 25/09/2006 19:02

But sport is only one tiny bit of competition. Don't they every time they look on the faces of their classmates think - she's pretty, he's fat or look at their work and say - she's better at drawing, he misbehaves. You can try as those of us instilling a Roman Catholic or other ethos into children to make them realise what is important etc but I doubt you can remove their ability to distinguish people one from another which is surely all competition is. Communism tried it with doctors paid what road sweepers are. It's never worked on planet earth, this lowering down to the commonest denominator. Some people try to manage it in communes but they seem to end up full of in fighting and much competition over all kinds of things.

kittywits · 25/09/2006 20:00

Xenia, I second that.

PopsP · 03/10/2006 12:14

While I think that some competition is O.K. I think sports day can be hell for non sporty children and parents if it's not handled carefully.
Two years ago my sons school did team events for sports day. Which meant my extremly non sporty son was not very popular with his team mates as he made the team last in every event that he was forced to take part in. He is used to being last to be picked for teams etc during his PE lessons, but found it hard to do so badly in front of all the school and parents. I also found it very hard to sit there and listen to two sets of parents complaining that our team was doing so badly just because my son was in it ! My son was very upset afterwards, but luckily he is very bright and I could remind him about the things that he is very good at.
This year I was dreading sports day, and would have let my son stay off school that day if he had asked. However it was done as individual events so this time when my son came last no-one moaned at him and he was perfectly happy. He even volunteered to enter an optional 800m race. He came 2nd from last but I was so proud of him.

I do think sports day is unfair, we don't have any other compulsary events at school, that highlight childrens strengths and weaknesses so much. If children are good at sports they will probably be picked for the school teams, that should be sufficient recognition for them. At my sons school children that are good at Maths, Art or reading etc don't get a chance to show the rest of the school or the parents.

notagrannyyet · 03/10/2006 13:20

I don't actually agree that children who are good at academic subjects and art don't get a chance to show their ability to the rest of the school and visiting adults.
All the primary schools I've visited and many of the secondaries have walls covered with named art work,poems etc.
If a child is good at spelling, maths ,any school subject they succeed and are encouraged daily. A sports day is an annual event FGS. I was crap at sport and hated the humiliation of it, but sport gives some kids their only chance to shine.

portonovo · 03/10/2006 13:27

I don't agree Notagrannyyet. Children are not compelled to do music, art, academic subjects in front of an invited audience of possibly competitive parents. Only for sports do we have this situation.

If we switched it around and forced children to compete in say music or spelling or maths - again, in front of parents - I suspect most parents would not be happy.

At our primary school sporting talent and achievement is encouraged and praised and a great deal is made of the sports teams and the events they compete it. Which is great - those children have chosen to take part and enjoy it, and they deserve the praise.

notagrannyyet · 03/10/2006 14:30

Some sporty parents are I agree very pushy and loud.I pulled my DSs from junior football teams and a swimming club for that very reason.Too much swearing & belittling of children at the former,and too many stop watches at the latter.
Personally I have never seen a child belittled or critised by other parents at a primary school sports day.Ours is just a normal state primary. No houses to gain points for or cups to win.Just a fun afternoon the winners are cheered in but so are the loosers.
My own DC although good at sport are not very fast runners so they have experienced being last in a race. This as never caused any upset and no loss of selfesteem. Poor marks in spelling tests week in week out as done much more damage...they are dyslexic.

You're right in stating that spelling tests aren't conducted in public,but displays on the school wall are. I struggled to fight back tears when I over heard a small group of academically pushy parents laughing at DS3 spelling in a poem on display one parents evening.

portonovo · 03/10/2006 14:48

Our school will display a child's work if it is an achievement for them - so a well-written piece full of spelling mistakes, or even a not-so-good piece that was miles better than that child's usual very poor effort.

I have never heard any parent belittle anyone's work on display - that's so awful. Perhaps competition really has little to do with the children and everything to do with the parents...

RTKangaMummy · 03/10/2006 15:04

My DS has dyspraxia and muscle weakness in his knees

And on a sports day at primary school several years ago parents and children were laughing and making rude comments on the way he was running - it is sort of with a limp and kind of lopsided and very slowly.

I was in tears but DS is soooooo determined he kept on going right to the end, but he got upset afterwards

So every year after that we put a knee support bandage on his knees to help him but it also meant the reaction from the parents was better

Anyway he is very gifted with English and writing etc but the school displays their work without the names on, around the classroom walls.

But I am not against competition in schools because that is life

BUT I just wish some adults would behave better and teach their children that ALL CHILDREN ARE DIFFERENT AND THAT IS WHAT MAKES THE WORLD GO ROUND

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