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Original poster

What the hell is wrong with competition?

125 replies

Twiglett · 23/09/2006 11:46

I hate this whole ooo non-competitive sports, we're not competitive

we need to be able to teach children to play properly, to be gracious when winning, to be noble in defeat

we need to teach them how they should always do their best and people are different and have different abilities, strengths

we need to teach them that by practicing and trying hard they too MIGHT win .. or they'll certainly do better

I cannot stand the whole non-competitive ethos .. it only comes from adults

Children are the MOST competitive of all

OP posts:
franca70 · 23/09/2006 22:13

Absolutely agree Ellbell.
Have to say that I'm a great supporter of oral exams, usually receive critics about it by my english friends (who accidentally all work in the academia), on the ground that they are not fair...
Yes Italian universities are open to all (apart from medicine and some private universities, where you need good marks from high school and to take a test), but taxes are extremely low. I, in the nineties used to pay 500 pounds a year. also the majority of students, because universities are open, and on average used to be good everywhere, don't move from home (which is good and v.bad at the same time). I don't know why I'm saying all these things, probably just to explain why i said i believed in accessibility. I can see that things are much different in these country. what is even more worrying is that everywhere (at least in europe) the number of people going into scientific degrees is decreasing. they probably all go into basket weaving...

UrsulatheSeaWitch · 23/09/2006 22:18

I'm wondering how many of the pro-competition parents don't let your kids win at games? (So they can practise being noble in defeat, obv )

colditz · 23/09/2006 22:38

Umm, well I do let him win a large proportion of the time, because I am an adult and he is 3, and it is an unfair competition otherwise, but actually I don't let him win all the time, or he will get cross when it doesn't happen in real life.

I wonder how many anti-competative parents have never ever played a board game with their children?

kittywits · 23/09/2006 22:43

Competition is part of life, both for children and adults. We do our children no favours if we try and remove this aspect from their lives. Infact you can't remove it. We need to help them to win and lose graciously, to understand that sometimes they will win and at other times lose. You can take away sports' days etc, but they will compete in other areas. To compete is part of human nature imo.

Ellbell · 23/09/2006 22:45

LOL Franca... I am now trying to imagine an Italian barone conducting an oral exam in basket-weaving...

I believe that more and more students in this country will stay near home and go to their nearest university, with the introduction of fees. I don't believe that oral exams are intrinsically unfair, but they are more open to abuse, since you can't go back to them later and have them remarked, like you can with a written paper. Also (if I've understood correctly) there is nothing like the External Examiner in this country who is supposed to ensure parity between different institutions. However, the student can refuse the mark and come back later, which is a good thing.

By the way, I am also passionate about accessibility. I come from a non-traditional background for Higher Education (not a formal qualification between any of my relatives in my parents' generation) and am deeply opposed to tuition fees. But I am also not sure that making anything and everything 'degree-worthy' (and then making everyone pay for the privilege of getting these qualifications) is the right way to do it.

expatinscotland · 23/09/2006 22:47

I hate competition.

It's so ingrained in the American psyche it's one of the things that put me off living there.

FOR LIFE.

Bollocks to it.

It's one of the things I really, really hate about some people and avoid competitive people like the plague.

Children are people, after all, and so of course, all people are different and not all are into competition.

My daughter couldn't care less about it.

Ellbell · 23/09/2006 22:48

God, that post was incoherent . Even I am having difficulty following my own thought patterns . Time for bed, Ellbell! [We need a sleepy emoticon]

kittywits · 23/09/2006 22:54

Ellbell, did you post that massage in the right place or am I even more spaced out than I originally thought? Please say you posted it in the wrong place or I need to seek help!

franca70 · 23/09/2006 23:00

Graciously is the key word imo.
ellbell, again I agree with you.

as a kid (7, or 8) I used to play cards with my grandma. she'd never let me win. bless her, she was to competitive to do that!

franca70 · 23/09/2006 23:00

Graciously is the key word imo.
ellbell, again I agree with you.

as a kid (7, or 8) I used to play cards with my grandma. she'd never let me win. bless her, she was to competitive to do that!

franca70 · 23/09/2006 23:00

pardon!

sorrell · 23/09/2006 23:07

It is hard when the only overt competition schools permit/encourage is in physical activity. So you can be clever, kind, brilliant in a million ways, but because you can't run fast you are branded a failure at age 5/6/7. I think that is crap. if there was a competition for who could read the best at 5, hey, my son would be a winner. He'd make the others look like shit. But who would really benefit from that?

kimi · 23/09/2006 23:28

me bows to twiglett

CJinSussex · 23/09/2006 23:30

Agree with Twig. Including exams marking & targets for university no's.

To last post; There are 'competitions' for children that can read at 5 - the teachers, parents and classmates know who the readers are and they hear the child being praised for it (or at least they should). So it's no different to winning the egg & spoon race. Likewise honours are given to the children who's art is displayed on parents evening, who plays recorder at open day or who's going to be Mary in the nativity. Most arguments about competition in schools always focus on sports day and yet there is competition throughout the curriculum and children will constantly compare themselves to others on all matters anyway - whether they do that in a positive or negative way is down to the childs personality. You can't protect them forever - Flack says there isn't any competitiveness in adult life - (at last, I used the new emoticon)!!

Ellbell · 24/09/2006 00:09

I've confused myself now, kittywits... Definitely posted in the right place (this is the only thread I've posted on today).

Most of my 10.45.38 post was in reply to Franca (who knows what I'm talking about!), but then I read it back and it didn't seem to make much sense, hence my second post about how incoherent it was. But while I was babbling on about how incoherent it was EPIS posted in between. (Oh blimey... hope it didn't look as if I was accusing EPIS of being incoherent... She is anything but!)

Shall shut up now and really will go to bed....

CJinSussex · 24/09/2006 00:59

At the risk of giving an extreme post do you think some parents loathe sports day so much because it is, in fact, the parents that are competitive on their childrens behalf? And while it is relatively easy to give children extra tuition for academic studies or music it's harder to make your child run the fastest? And if their children can't win the races, they'd rather nobody else did?

Clearly some sports come down to coaching; football, tennis etc but most sports day events are about speed and agility and often at primary school age that's a natural talent.

Was just mulling on it...

ghosty · 24/09/2006 01:02

Haven't read other posts but Twig, I agree with you (I seem to be doing that a lot lately!)

kittywits · 24/09/2006 07:04

I think there's certainly an elemnet to that with some parents CJinsussex

Original poster
Twiglett · 24/09/2006 08:24

Sorrel I do think that the competitiveness in academia is already well established ... certainly I'm aware of the children who read fluently and well in DS's year 1 and the praise they have received for accomplishing .. much as I am aware of the praise that DS receives for trying hard

the funny thing is that DS is not a natural sportsman .. and he's also not the brightest kid in the class .. he enjoys sports and he is clever but it will take him an awful lot of effort to 'win' (physically or academically).. and when he does 'win' he is thrilled and when he doesn't win then many times he is gracious but sometimes he isn't and that is where we do the calming down and thinking about it and considering how other people feel work

But he, like all other 5 year olds of my experience, has an acute sense of fairness so being told he's not won when he has drives him absolutely bananas

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Judy1234 · 24/09/2006 09:03

Certainly as CJ says it's the parents who can be the worst at all this. I've always thought by working full time and not doing school collections and not really spending any time with other parents I lead a blessed and happy life away from any comparisons or all that angst over who is doing what and when and who is better than whom whereas some who put their all into bringing up little Jonnny because there's anything else in their life ram competition he doesn't need down his throat whereas his own natural competitive streak or lack of it probably wouldn't be an issue.

stephanieplum · 24/09/2006 09:30

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Original poster
Twiglett · 24/09/2006 09:41

as a postscript to my last post .. I think that it is in academia when competitiveness becomes more important as they get older... ie in exams that the competitiveness is being lost in the structure of how they are marked .. obviously exams are to judge how well you have studied / understand a subject but it should, IMHO, be relative to how your peers have studied / understand

OP posts:
FrannyandZooey · 24/09/2006 09:44
Original poster
Twiglett · 24/09/2006 10:00

really?

I wonder whether you'll change your mind as DS gets older and you see inate parts of his character being crushed by well-meaning but inevitably pointless bollocks

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FillyjonktheBananaEater · 24/09/2006 10:13

I just don't get WHY we need all this competition.

If I go to see my GP, I don't give a feck how well she did in exams compared to the other 100 in her class.

I care whether she is competant to prescibe me drugs.

And I don't think kids actually are that competative when they are not accustomed to being in a competative environment .