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Education

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Original poster

What the hell is wrong with competition?

125 replies

Twiglett · 23/09/2006 11:46

I hate this whole ooo non-competitive sports, we're not competitive

we need to be able to teach children to play properly, to be gracious when winning, to be noble in defeat

we need to teach them how they should always do their best and people are different and have different abilities, strengths

we need to teach them that by practicing and trying hard they too MIGHT win .. or they'll certainly do better

I cannot stand the whole non-competitive ethos .. it only comes from adults

Children are the MOST competitive of all

OP posts:

KBear · 23/09/2006 11:47

Kbear stands up and applauds. This snack talks sense!

southeastastra · 23/09/2006 11:47

and men

Original poster

Twiglett · 23/09/2006 12:02

I've got a fanjo and I love competition

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hunkermunker · 23/09/2006 12:15

Depends on how the school do it, but in general, yes, I agree.

My only reservation is when "only rugby counts" or, for instance, the only productions they put on are musicals, not plays (so non-singers can't participate).

But yes, I do agree - it's bonkers to suggest competition shouldn't be part of a child's education.

Socci · 23/09/2006 12:20

Message withdrawn

moondog · 23/09/2006 12:23

Ironically,this whole official 'non competitive' policy occurs at a time when people are possibly more competitive in society that they have ever been.
Witness pathetic rivalry over cars,clothes,sonsumer goods and so on.

flack · 23/09/2006 12:29

I really feel different from Twiglett. Maybe some competition is part of life, but...

DD came home in tears the other day because she didn't get a sticker in class (some children did for good behavior, not supposed to be a competition). Everything is a competition with DD. She's always telling me how "Everyone in class thinks I'm the prettiest" etc. How she got this way I don't know because nobody else in the family cares how we look. I avoid competition & DH is snugly confident & self-assured no matter how well he does compared to other people. My other child is only mildly competitive and just enjoys taking part.

I am trying hard to each DD that "being the best" means "trying your best", but it's not sinking in. I really don't want extra external public messages exacerbating her insecurities and competitiveness by reminding her if she doesn't do well compared to other kids. I'd rather she didn't compare herself at all.

Maybe will be different when she's 9 or 10. But now, at age 5 I think the competitive ethos is unhelpful at best.

Original poster

Twiglett · 23/09/2006 12:30

Maybe if we taught that competition is fine for personal attributes but not for material possessions .. that material possessions are merely fripperies .. maybe then we'd have a better grounding in life than we're currently giving our children

(this links with the whole target of getting 50% of students into higher education .. what the fuck for? .. merely devalues the higher education by useless courses )

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Aero · 23/09/2006 12:54

I agree too - mostly. However, I think age 4,5,6 is too young for some children to really understand competition and that coming last in every race at sports day does not mean that you're rubbish at everything, which in turn makes you want to give up. For dd last year, sports day was crushing for her as she was that child, and I make no apology for thinking that too much competition at this age/stage is overwhelming for some. There was more team events this year and things worked better that way for the younger infants.

However, by the time they're in year 2 or 3 at school, I think competition is absolutely fine. They're better able to understand their own strengths and weaknesses, and usually better able to cope with coming last, or for some, just not coming first is bad!!

This year, she coped a lot better and tried her best and didn't come last in everything, although when she was last in that sack race, she kept on going until she finished, which she just couldn't do last year.

moondog · 23/09/2006 12:59

Oh yes,doncha just love those M.Phils in friendship bracelet making? Sooooooooooooooooo useful

Original poster

Twiglett · 23/09/2006 12:59

yes but hasn't she learned to keep going and try harder?

agree that team games are good idea in younger ages

but kids don't get the 'nobody won, you're all winners' bollocks .. I swear they don't

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Original poster

Twiglett · 23/09/2006 13:03

Flack .. do you think maybe she's trying to tell you something about what she cares about .. because you are against competition she has gone to the other extreme .. eg because you don't value 'prettiness' maybe she is tryign to tell you that others think she's the prettiest (although I'm sure you tell her all the time how gorgeous she is )

yes there are extremes in behaviour but from the bedrock of a competitive world you can teach her how to normalise her competitiveness and the guidelines to not being crass / rude / deprecating of others in the process

don't you think?

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Blandmum · 23/09/2006 13:07

I think that doing away with sports day also does a great disservice to children who are good at sports but not so hot at other things.

It was great for me (as a teacher) to see kids who were the bane of my exsistance in science classes doing really well in races/ other sports.

(and I write as someone who was totay crap at all sports, and hated them all with a passion....still do. Was always last at everything on sports day, always last to be picked for teams....made me the fine, upstanding , bitter and twisted bastard you see before you )

SoupDragon · 23/09/2006 13:08

On the whole I agree. DSs school is non-competitive in infants but in juniors, sports day turns to proper races etc. This seems to work well actually as by juniors, the children are more emotionally ready to cope with losing (although DH is still not emotionally mature enough to cope with losing
). Also, the school doesn't do "good behaviour" rewards, no voting onto councils, no acheivement certificates and other such nonsense. Of course they get praised for doing well but not in an "in your face" way.

Blu · 23/09/2006 13:15

I'm not sure I do see comepetitiveness at 5 amongst a lot of DS's friends - some yes, but others seem put off by it.

What's sparked you off, Twig, it isn't Sports day season yet, is it?

I think competition well managed and for good reasons is fine.

tortoiseshell · 23/09/2006 13:19

I think children can cope with competition. I don't think parents can. It's bad enough comparing reading levels. Some parents really seem to think if their child is above your child, that somehow makes their child better than yours. It drives me mad. And if your child is further on than theirs they have to justify it, because of course, they've been ill, or whatever.

So if they want to have competitive sports days, fine, but maybe parents should not be allowed to attend.

(NB I don't actually think parents should be banned from sports day!!!! But I do think competitiveness in parents is a problem!)

Mercy · 23/09/2006 14:06

Agree with Aero's post.

We all have to accept the idea that society is hierarchical (is that the right word?).

Original poster

Twiglett · 23/09/2006 14:38

Just saw a pertinent poster

"I don't mind losing but I will never fail"

exactly what we need to teach our children

Blu .. diversion of mad menstrual hormones away from family to unimportant argy-bargy about which I generally feel quite strongly as curent educational theory seems to demand the non-competitive IYSWIM

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Joolstoo · 23/09/2006 14:56

""I don't mind losing but I will never fail" "

hallejuah, praise whoever your Lord is, praise Twiglett, praise common sense.

bring back sports day - I remember ds2 being in primary school when a new 'right on headmistress' started - she abolished sports day with no consultation and instead parents were invited to watch a 'follow my leader' event [yawn] - wonder how they picked the leader and weren't all the followers 'failures' [rolls eyes]

Go Twiglett!!!

Judy1234 · 23/09/2006 15:14

Absolutely. The non competitive schools are doing the children a disservice whereas those which maintain some competition produce children who can cope with the world. You don't need a school to tell them that that boy in the class is very clever or that one is best at running. They've got eyes. They can see. And that can spur them on to do better, to want to be the best at whatever it is.

It can be challenging having twins who compare each other often on an hourly basis at home though...

flack · 23/09/2006 15:45

Yeah, it's great when it's compulsary that you have to take part in events which remind you that you are crap. Again, and again, and again. I really enjoyed that as a child. Especially when we had award ceremonies which most of us had to sit thru dying with boredom since we never got anything. Or the able kids would strut around bragging about what they could do. Woohoo. That really taught me to be noble in defeat and what strengths I have, it did.

Course it really prepared me for when I had to run a 50 metre dash as an adult and hear the results read out to a crowd... oh, no, actually, nobody ever made me do that as an adult. And it really prepared me for a work colleague strutting around the office because he could do more press-ups than anybody else... oh, no, actually, can't remember that happening either. Can't remember any compulsory competition as an adult, funny enough. Unless you count job interviews. But you don't usually have to watch how much better somebody else is in their interview.

Yup, competitive sport sure prepares you for adulthood, it is just SO relevant.

FillyjonktheBananaEater · 23/09/2006 15:51

nice one, flack

let kids be competitive if they want, but loads of school based competition is imposed by adults.

portonovo · 23/09/2006 15:52

I have mixed feelings. I agree competition is part of the world, and certainly my children are very academic and thrive on being pitted against other bright children. I also believe children should be rewarded for all their talents and abilities.

However, sports days I really hated as a child, my mum hated watching them and I know no-one who enjoyed them either as a participant or a spectator. Our school's non-competitive days are slightly more bearable, just a fun family afternoon.

I believe sporting talent should be encouraged and rewarded, and our school definitely does that. But forcing children to compete in something they don't like and perhaps they are rubbish at, in the full view of all invited parents etc, achieves nothing.

What would parents (and children) feel like if we had compulsory competitions in say maths or spelling? Make all children take part and invite parents to watch the victory of a few and the humilitation of many. My 11 year old would have loved it - he could have swept the floor with the whole school and some of the teachers too! But it still wouldn't have been fair.

No, I think if we're going to have sporting or musical or any other competitions at school, they should be voluntary - let those who want to take part do so. Then really praise and reward those who do well, and yes definitely have real winners.

The other thing about school sports is that it puts most children off for life. Part of that comes from the team focus and the feeling many children end up with that they are rubbish compared to others - I know many P.E. teachers who actually tell children that in the context of team sports. I think it would be much better to have a focus on individual sports and general fitness too - I know few people who actually continue with team sports after leaving school, but many more who are more likely to go to the gym or play badminton or do aerobics or dance or whatever.

Original poster

Twiglett · 23/09/2006 15:54

no adults try to instill NON-COMPETITIVENESS

this is not about sports .. but sports day is an easy example

its about every single facet and whether being the best you can be is important, whether where you are in relation to others is important or not, whether you are allowed to be proud of doing well (better than others)

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Original poster

Twiglett · 23/09/2006 15:55

it is also about whether we should return to the days when exams were marked as top 5% get A, next 10% get B etc

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