Is private school the ultimate option if you can afford it?

[Raqueli]

Hi - hoping for some opinions and advice!

We live in an area with fantastic state primary schools (outstanding on ofsted, high on dfed league tables for key stage 4 achievement, affluent area). And a good state secondary - not as good as private schools or grammars for results and not as good as the faith state schools in the area, but pretty good. So a fortunate situation to be in.

Except dh went to private school and we are debating whether if you can afford to go private (which we just about can) we should, as in terms of results private schools rank higher than our local state schools, and in terms of facilities there is a huge difference. But would mean money was tighter for other things (holidays, home improvement etc) and would mean we would both have to keep working in reasonably senior jobs.

What do people think? If you can afford private school would you still go for the state school and live more comfortably, work less hard? Or do you think if you can afford to go private it's always the best possible investment for your children?

That's interesting, higheredserf. As I've said earlier, ds's school has only recently started sending people to university. So far the ones who are doing best/are happiest are the ones who have gone very locally- mostly living at home or with family. I think it'll be a while before we send them confidently 400 miles from home, as I did and as dd is doing next month

in a way I would choose private if I could afford it .

but then again where we used to live in Hove was full of these chi chi little private schools and the childrens bad manners and general obliviousness to their immediate environment was the only thing that was 'outstanding' about them.

even if they did wear fancy blazers. I noticed the same with for example, Brighton College.

Higheredserf I don't have a fear of state schools, I teach in one and have taught in several others, and indeed both DH and I went to states schools, and thence to university, away from home, not scared of travelling .
It is depressing thought the emphasis on results, as if it is only nthe outcome that matters, not the learning experience. We send our DC to indie because from our own observations the teaching and learning is better. That is more important to us than a string of qualifications. It is a top indie and the uniform can be sourced from Tesco and Asda - no one cares about labels - uniform is not an issue..

We could afford private but didn't.
Dcs 17 and 15 doing well at school.
We have more than enough money to buy them a flat or small house and support them through uni.

Clever, hard working and well supported children can do amazingly well in a reasonably decent comprehensive where there is good behaviour management. Plenty of evidence of this.

If you want your children to be educated separately from ordinary children (by this I mean children who are neither especially clever or especially well off, either or both of which are necessary to access private education) then you will have to go beyond the state sector.

TheLateMrsLizCromwell - you know nothing about me or my children! But results are important - although A* are not everything.

Some State schools churn out bright, high achieving, motivated students. Some don't. Some Private schools churn out dull exam fodder, other's churn out wonderful well rounded young people.

Admittedly I think ultimately parents are the biggest factor.

Please don't buy the hype regarding private schools as the only place where you will find high standards or children programmed to "learn". It certainly doesn't reflect the current research that indicates that state educated comprehensive pupils achieve higher results than their privately educated peers at university - www.theguardian.com/education/2013/jun/16/accesstouniversity-private-schools

For my part, I was educated at a Yorkshire state grammar school (yes, we do have excellent state education in the north as well...). There was a huge variety in backgrounds, cultures and socio-economic strata meaning that we all gained a realistic view of what "normality" is for most people as well as encouraging empathy and understanding. I wonder if this is truly the case if you are hived off and "protected" from those who have less money than yourself. This was combined with a first class education and excellent extra curricular activities - D of E, sporting competitions, music, performance.

I went on to Oxford along with many of my peers and anecdotally at least, private pupils struggled - at least in my discipline - English. Unfortunately they had got too used to being spoon fed model answers by their teachers at school who knew what would impress an examiner or Oxbridge interviewer. Sadly, it was a veneer that quickly wore off.

Depends on the school and depends on the child. It doesn't matter what the results say. In the end it always comes down to this teacher with this child sitting in a classroom this year with these children.

Plenty of state schools do the job and many children fail at private schools. Many outstanding state schools and private schools don't suit individual children. Some children thrive academically at schools that don't look good on paper. Often good results at private and state schools hide the fact that the school is doing a so-so job with an easy intake. Some state schools really are awful and some private schools really are very good and vice versa.

Do the research, know your child and realise that no choice will be perfect.

Another product of an excellent northern state school here. Astonishing, isn't it?

TheLateMrsLizCromwell - I find the way you talk about the school you teach at a bit odd. You teach there. If you think the kids aren't stretched enough, then stretch them! If you think they're too spoon fed, then stop spoon feeding them. I know there are all sorts of pressures on teachers to get results, and you don't have total freedom over what you do in the classroom, but you talk as if you have no influence on the experience of the children you teach.

TheLateMrsLizCromwell We send our DC to indie because from our own observations the teaching and learning is better. How did you ascertain that the learning was better by simply looking?

Have you been to visit the private schools you are considering ? Each have a very different culture and it may well be that you don't like any of them !

We changed ds to the prep as he was unhappy at his local primary but my dp is a teacher at the school so we have very different circumstances. He has thrived from bring introverted and reluctant to talk about school to be a confident and easy going character.

School is also about sociaization, don't underestimate the need for being a well rounded person, look at the schools and judge them for yourself and you will more than likely be able to make up your mind. It really isn't just about the money

The Cardiff report seems to be analysing data from students who graduated in 1992? If this is the case I'm not sure why it's being presented as a 'new report' in the papers.

Actually just to clarify what the reports on degree results said;

Where students enter university with low grades (CCC) then state schooled pupild tend to do better.

This isn't a shock, surely? Students coming out of private school with A level grades like that, will always find tertiary education a chellenge, I would have said.

At the higher end, the difference between state schooled and private schooled pupils is diminishingly small in terms of outcome. Yet, pro rata, independent schooled students are over represented, particularly on the most selective courses at the most selective establishments.

So it's probably not fair to categorise the research as 'evidence' that state schooled pupils 'do better' at university.

And it's a complete misrepresentation to say independently schooled pupils tend to drop out more frequently; they don't by quite a margin!

Yet another survivor of an excellent Yorkshire state education here.

Private isn't always better. In my part of the country, the state schools are excellent, so most parents don't bother with the (one and only) local prep. But the types of schools are very different: if you wanted a fancy uniform and nightly homework from reception, you might choose the prep.

So do your research and choose what suits you and your child better. But don't forget that some state schools are miles better than their nearest private counterparts.

Other posters are right, it depends on what's right for you child and also the local schools.

My DS is at state primary and I couldn't be happier with how he is doing. He is stretched, but he can be a bit lazy and also easily led. He is very competitive, but can be a worrier. Our local state schools are ok, but according to their Ofsted reports and parents I have spoken to, they don't challenge or push the brighter children as much as they could.

We are going to visit all the local schools in October, but also 2 Independant Grammars. We haven't completely made our minds up, but based on feedback and opinions of friends who have children at the Indies, I am more keen on those at the moment.

I am a single parent (decent job and salary) and it will be a stretch for me to pay for private, but if they are the best fit for my DS, then that's where he will go.

Forgot to say, we live in an area of the North West that is considered a deprived area and I won't be shouting about it if DS does go private, as it's just not the 'done thing'. When I mentioned it to DS's head teacher last year, her response was 'Why would you want to do that, children from our school don't go onto to private schools'.

I was really surprised as she is a brilliant Head, who manages a fantastic school. Quite a sad response really.

I think if the private school achieves better results than your local state schools and the facilities are better and you can afford it, you would be mad not to.
We couldn't afford it and made do with our really crap local schools as we had no option.
I wouldn't judge anybody for investing in their children's education be it financially or personal time.

Agree about the non-judging. And its not just the results, as some posters have said, but what is best for the child, for their whole educational experience. Our DC went to state primary, and independent secondary. DH & I went to state schools, got good results but were not stretched. Our DC were offered places at very academic independent schools and have thrived there, so regardless of results, very happy they have been with extremely bright children, and very enthusiastic teachers.