Is private school the ultimate option if you can afford it?

[Raqueli]

Hi - hoping for some opinions and advice!

We live in an area with fantastic state primary schools (outstanding on ofsted, high on dfed league tables for key stage 4 achievement, affluent area). And a good state secondary - not as good as private schools or grammars for results and not as good as the faith state schools in the area, but pretty good. So a fortunate situation to be in.

Except dh went to private school and we are debating whether if you can afford to go private (which we just about can) we should, as in terms of results private schools rank higher than our local state schools, and in terms of facilities there is a huge difference. But would mean money was tighter for other things (holidays, home improvement etc) and would mean we would both have to keep working in reasonably senior jobs.

What do people think? If you can afford private school would you still go for the state school and live more comfortably, work less hard? Or do you think if you can afford to go private it's always the best possible investment for your children?

Go state. Great to he part of local community and broader learning experience. Save your cash and spend on exciting stuff at weekends etc

It's never an easy question to answer in general as you have to think of it for your own individual child, their talents, their difficulties and the schools available.

For us, we live in a well provided county with high performing state secondaries ( no grammar option here) but we sent our 3 to single sex indie day schools which are academically in the top 5/10 in the country.

Our reasons were that we wanted them to mix with children who thought working hard was the norm and wanted to achieve the absolute best they could with their talents. We did not want them to be distracted or to under achieve because of one or two or more disruptive individuals, despite the teachers and schools best efforts..

I reached this conclusion having myself been a high achiever on the far end of the M62, as iseenodust alludes to, where every day of my school career was met with ridicule for being clever and with disruption from those who didn't care. I'm sure I'm not the only one whose choices for their kids were hugely influenced by their own experiences.

I would pay for private if we could afford it. And I'm living in the catchment of an outstanding primary, and going to move into the catchment of one of the feeder secondaries of the same primary (which is also outstanding).

To me, the range of activities provided by the private secondary is just much better. There's also the smaller class size. And the wider curriculum, such as languages.

tumbletumble I'm not so sure my local primary actually has a broad wide social mix. It is unbearably white middle class where we live.

And then I see the kids in Winchester college. (Not that we'll be going to that kind of private school ever). They have a much larger mix of ethnicity. Though the chinese there are all super rich I'm sure.

TheLateMrsLizCromwell they (state school pupils) would not be as well prepared for the real world of work.

Really . I don't believe it. Most of the people I work with are from state schools. They seem well prepared enough to me.

"To me, the range of activities provided by the private secondary is just much better."

Of course it is! They have loads more money.

hak well yes, that's why I would choose private if I could afford it. As it is, I can't so I'm putting DD into a state school.

We are planning on private for primary school for ours. DS1 has had a reasonably significant speech delay and there's an excellent private school around the corner from us. We think he'll benefit massively from the smaller class sizes and pastoral care they offer.

We're worried that he'll get left behind in a class of 30 - there just isn't time for teachers to give close attention to that many children. The local state schools are "good" and I think improving (increasingly better Ofsteds and exam results over the years), but I'm not convinced they will have the time, or possibly even the motivation, to help him catch up.

We're not planning on private secondary, although I suppose that could change.

Similar to BeckAndCall, we live in a county with excellent states but no grammars. Our DC both went to independent top 10 schools.
For us it was wanting the best possible education and the wider opportunities. The working atmosphere and no limits feeling did wonders for my DC. While my initial worry was resilience, would they always have everything handed to them and never learn to have a mindset that hard work is needed to achieve. We have found this to be the least of our worries, a combination of life's adversities and the school's natural atmosphere of work, not spoonfeeding, meant DC both are now at uni/staring jobs working their socks off and are incredibly resilient.

Whqtsagoodusername- I'm sure you have, but do check the SEN provision and make sure it's very clear what, if anything, you have to pay extra for......

dodger same here.

For able DC, I think the high level of academic selection that you can source in the private sector (which is available in only a few state schools), really does ensure that they have to work bloody hard.

There is no scope to coast, just because you're on course for an A. Everyone is clever. Everyone is on course for an A. So the school pushes the cohort in every which-way direction!

I'm talking secondary here by the way.

I'm less convinced by academic selection at 4 ...

I think you need to do whats right for your own children and if you are lucky enough to be able to consider a independant education than that should be an option.

Our daughter starts her new private school in September, she has been in a state school for 3 years. We would not have moved her if she was not happy to go. Accademically she was doing well at the state school and i am sure she would receive a good education. However, the private school suited her personality and the whole learning atmosphere and pastoral care side blew us and her away.

She loved her taster days, loved getting more time with the class teacher and that everyone got on with their work! Honestly if she had come out of there wanting to stay with her friends and not liking it she would have stayed at her state school. I should add she has been unhappy for most of the last acedemic year, in a large 30+ class of three mixed year groups and we felt we needed to do somthing.

Round our way most people who choose to go private do so because they don't live within the tiny catchments of the good schools and don't go to church. So the private schools certainly aren't filled with overseas children, just kids of normal working parents.

One of the huge advantages of our local private school is it is genuinely supportive of working parents.

"just kids of normal working parents. "

Normal working parents can't afford school fees.

I think essentially you have to go with your gut instinct when you visit the schools. The most important issue is the school suiting the child. I was educated at an indie and loved it, went to Oxford and eventually ended up teaching in a state secondary. My late DH went to a state school and was the first person in his family to go to uni. He was a happy and successful GP and strongly felt his state experience made his job easier. Our DC all went to the local comp and all played instruments, were very sporty, involved in MUNGAs and all got in to read medicine. State suited them because they were already confident and outgoing. If any of them had difficulties we would have moved them in a heartbeat. You are lucky to have the choice so if I were you I would visit all options and pick the best fit for your DS.

A recent study showed that 6% of state school students drop out of uni in the first year, compared to 3% from independent.

I haven't seen this research, TheLate - could you post a link to it, please? I'd be interested to read the reasons behind this stat.

Amber could be this www.hesa.ac.uk/free-statistics#- scroll down to non-continuation rates

State school kids do have a higher drop out rate at university. There are lots of reasons. The chief one I would imagine is money. Private school parents are almost certainly going to be in a position to support their student children- many state school parents wouldn't be. Also private school kids are almost certain to know somebody at university or who has been to university- the idea of going will be much more ordinary. At my ds's school, we are only in our 3rd year of sending anyone to a University- the kids who go are pioneers! It's still a real leap into the unknown- imagine being the first in your family and the first in your school.....

It depends so much on your individual situation.
In our case, DD was unexpectedly given a place at the worst rated primary school in the county, and as there is a shortage of school places we had only a very, very slim chance of getting her in anywhere else.
Moving wasn't really an option - and we didn't really want to - so we decided to pay for her to go to private school instead. She loves it, she's thriving and we made the right choice, even though we have had to make many sacrifices along the way, we don't have proper holidays, for example, but we would rather go camping knowing she would be going back to school happy than sit in a hotel with her dreading going home.
But if I could get everything she gets there, but at a state school, effectively for free, no way would I pay for her to go private.
Private schools are always going to have better facilities - they can afford to.
But it's not necessarily about that. It's about what's best for your child and your family. If it's essential your child is in a class of 15 and has a school swimming pool, then private is better. If they are happy at school but live for holidays and weekends that you spend together and sending them private might mean you'd lose those, it might not be the answer.
The whole thing is a nightmare.
You sound luckier in that you have a choice of good schools - we didn't have that luxury.
Good luck with your decision anyway!

Not at this stage yet with my two but I went to a mix of both.
I didn't get on at any school to be honest but that was mainly my painfully shy and awkward character.
I think my mother was hoping the private primary school would give me more confidence - unfortunately putting me up a year made it even worse as I was noticeably smaller than everyone else.
Anyway, this is by the by. What I wanted to say was I think that it really depends on the character of the child. Generally clever children will do well anywhere, although the exam factory style will generate better results overall.
I can honestly say all I remember from primary school is how to take orders and rote learn lyrics for the yearly carol concert. But to be fair, all the other girls who went there and went on to boarding/ well thought of day schools (I went to a grammar afterwards and then a comprehensive sixth form) got into excellent universities, with a very high proportion to Oxbridge. So I guess it served them well.
It was hideously expensive in the early 90s (when I was there) and my mum really struggled - I can imagine it's even more expensive now, so wouldn't even consider without being VERY comfortable financially/ guaranteed bursaries.

MillionPramMiles - yes, exactly that. In my DDs class, 60% are children of normal working parents, who live in normal, average houses. Several parents are teachers, a couple are nurses (not doctors, nurses), one's a fireman, one's a policeman.
Ok, there's also a lawyer's son, a couple of parents who run successful businesses, but they are in the minority, I swear to you.
In fact, some of the kids at the state school I work in come from much more affluent backgrounds than my DD or some of her friends.
As I said, it's about making the decisions that suit your family.
Some people say they can't afford private school but have two holidays, two cars, a big house, big mortgage, etc, and if that's what they prefer then fair enough.
We prefer to forego a lot of that to give our daughter the education we choose.

When comparing results do remember state schools take everyone. I am often very impressed by the sheer numbers my DCs secondary get through compared with local private schools (the privates tend to be very close to 100% 5 GCSEs unless the government has decided to disallow iGCSEs). The privates only take at the broadest the top 50% of intelligence! and the best only the top 5% or less.

Why not do state primary and then look again for secondary? Maybe even look across the boarder West? Relatives of mine have found those school superior. Admittedly they've done pretty well being educated by the state in West Yorkshire too.

I agree with many other posters that the choice isn't between state school and private school - the variables are far more complex and your choice of school will depend on your child, your family values and what is available within reasonable distance of where you live (or are prepared to move). I have spent much of last academic year researching secondary schools for my DD (just about to enter Y6 in the French system in Paris). We may be staying in Paris and we may be moving to another European country (tbd) so my research has covered masses of schools in different places. None of them are even close to perfect! They are all a compromise somewhere and as parents there are many things we need to provide outside school to ensure our DC get the education they need and we want. I needed to work out what is really hard to provide at home and that I need school to offer, and to narrow my choices down on that basis.

mummytime - results are not the be-all and end-all. In the state comp I teach in, of course many pupils get A* across the board - it is easy to do the minimum, and if they are reasonably bright, they are pretty much spoon-fed anyway. 'Results' - ie GCSES is a very drab way to look at education
If you want more then just results - ie the DC to be stretched, and also to understand that they are not going to walk into any job just because they have a string of As, then you need to look more closely at the type of school that will best suit them.
My own DC were top of the class, not stretched at all at their state primary. When they moved to an academic indie, they realised there were many other bright, and brighter students, and more importantly that hard work was important , not just 'being bright' and churning out a certificate with a bunch of As on it, which gets you nowhere.