Sensitive, timid boy - Private or state? any experiences?

[Ouchy]

Hi there

I'm hoping for some advice really, regarding my 4 year old summer born who's due to start reception in Sept.

He is super sensitive, timid and lacks confidence. Is embarrassed easily and is a perfectionist. I'm nervous about him at school, he'll be an easy target for bullies. He does not make friends easily.

He is quite anxious and will not join in with a crowd. He's ok with one on one playdates but only once he knows the child well and has sussed them out. When there's more than one he shies away.

He's got into a nice state primary but he'll be one of 30, he'll shy away from the big groups and his voice won't be heard. I'm worried this will dampen down his already fragile confidence. He loved his time at pre school but struggled with the teachers who tried to force him to join in when he just wasn't ready.

Or we could fork out the fees for a very nurturing private school with small claws and teacher to child ratios where hopefully his interest in learning will still be picked up on as he might have more confidence to voice it and I presume teachers will have more time for ask the children as they are less stretched?

I don't know the right answer. I just wondered if anyone else has our had a timid summer born boy, what they did and how it panned out? Forgot to mention at the state primary the classes are mixed reception year one so he'll be the youngest by far.:(

Simply stating my own observations of the schools I know. And obviously your experience may be different which is why the OP needs to be aware - but that does not make mine untrue.

"Bullying in state - no sanctions - they will not exclude for bullying"

Well, that doesn't sound like an opinion based on one schools that sounds as if you are stating it as fact. And it's not a fact. Any more than my anecdote about a friend's child being badly bullied at prep and public school says anything about all private schools.

And IME, state schools are more 'results' driven (ie exam passes A-C)than independent, where our DC are lucky enough to be able to choose subjects that interest them, where they won't necessarily get top grades but will have a positive learning experience, whereas that would be impossible in state, where league tables rule. Again, YMMV, but this is what I see, close up, here in SW London. I would love to see state schools improve, which is why I continue to teach there, but ignoring the reality helps no-one, least of all the OP.

at Morton's Fork impaling state schools. Either too results driven, or only caring about getting "d" students to a "c"

"independent, where our DC are lucky enough to be able to choose subjects that interest them, where they won't necessarily get top grades but will have a positive learning experience, whereas that would be impossible in state, where league tables rule."
What sort of subjects do you mean?

On a different tack op

I know your son seems vulnerable just now- he is indeed tiny aged just 4. My middle dd went at 4 too with size 7 ( junior ) shoes!

They develop at such a fast rate at this time. They seem to rise to the occasion. everyone has qualms about their child starting but most if the time it's fine - there are challenges but they learn that it's ok.

He will take his lead from you so whatever school you choose be positive about it

My DSs are in a state primary. It's a school with 30 children per year. DS2 is in yr3 (or will be) and since he joined the school they identified a problem with his reading. They catered for this marvellously; one to one reading every day and frequent group work with similarly reading phobic boys. They've taken care of his specific needs and his reading has improved massively.

Younger DS is in reception and is heading for year 1. Again, class of 30 but his teacher got him completely. She has really got to know him and his personality - when she identified that he wasn't reading she made him a book with his favourite cartoon characters.

I remember choosing schools with my eldest and worrying about the class sizes. However my experience of schools with this class size has totally even the opposite of what I expected/assumed.

At the very least, with more children there is far more opportunity that there'll be another quiet, sensitive child for yours to buddy up with.

Don't rule out the state school. Oh, and it is categorically not the case that state schools can't exclude for bullying. One of the worst threads I've read on here about bullying and a school refusing to tackle it has been a public school. Rich kids can be bullies too.

I would certainly go private with him.

"Bullying in state - no sanctions - they will not exclude for bullying" . Nor will they at many private schools unless severe. Some of dc's peers are in for a big shock at senior.

I have a DD the same as your DS OP. We went private...and after year 2 we moved to state.

The reasons were varied...she was in a class of 12 in the prep and there simply wasn't enough scope for her to branch out and learn better social skills. The groups of little girls in her class numbered 5 and with DD 6. She was left out at times and found it cloying when she wasn't.

The school did nothing to help her learn more social skills...or to gain confidence. It was all about academics.

In her class of 30 at State primary, she was recieved with open arms and her teacher went out of her way to help her to integrate.

They also investigated the real reasons for her social struggles and shyness and brought in an Educational Psychologist.

She's in year 6 this September and thriving socially and academically. I would go with the RIGHT school rather than considering class size. In our case, the state school was more nurturing and caring while the private was more academic and less caring.

My DS, a sensitive soul, had experience of both private and state sectors during the primary school years.

He was excluded and marginalised by his classmates in the private prep school he attended but was well-integrated in his state primary school.

I think the difference was that there was such a mix of backgrounds in the state school that the children just had to be more tolerant and accepting of difference. The school also banged on (at the time it seemed too much) about appropriate social behaviour - turn-taking, sharing, being a good friend etc.

The private prep put less emphasis on being 'nice' and did not keep an eye out for anti-social behaviour to the same extent as the state primary - it was more a 'survival of the brashest' sort of place. Generalising wildly, the children tended to be more 'thrusting forward' and confident than those in the state primary school and were also less respectful, particularly of those who were deemed to be of a lower social status.

This was just our experience, and I appreciate that others have had a happier time at a private prep school than my DS did.

""Bullying in state - no sanctions - they will not exclude for bullying"

As I said earlier- that's just not true anyway.

You didn't really answer my question, TheLate. Are you saying that the outstanding school at which you teach does not punish bullying?

If he is shy and doesn't make friends easily, does he already know children at either school? That might be a decider. I don't think he needs, to toughen up - he is tiny; of course you are worried. But there are mums of all social backgrounds with DC like yours who have exactly worries as you. In a larger class he may have more chance of finding friends who are similar to him.

Would it be an option for you to home educate him for some period of time?

Your post could have described DS at 4 - though he isn't a summer born.

He has been to two state schools.

The first one - small, cute village primary, year group of 16 - was a disaster. Ended up as a selective mute.

The second - big town primary, year group of 60 - was absolutely brilliant. By end of Year 6, in fact by the end of his first term in that school, you would never, ever have picked DS out as the shy, super-sensitive, lonely little boy he was in Reception at his first school.

It ISN'T a state / private divide [I looked at privates as an option instead of school 2. Most refused to consider him: 'he's too different / I'm sure somewhere else would be better for him / i don't really think he would cope here', and the others were not particularly open to the idea of making any specific accommodation for him]. It is a difference between individual schools. And in our cae, the bigger school was MUCH better, because there was a much wider choice of friends, a larger number iof academic near-peers, there was a much more varied intake so staff were very wilkling tio bend over backwards to meet the needs of the individual child etc.

We have a very similar DD (not summer born but has sensory issues so fine one on one but struggles in big groups). We tried the state route for two years, and have now moved to the private school. (would have preferred to change to another state one but the right option didn't exist here)

Because of her sensory issues, the small class size is much much better for her. But as someone said upthread, friendship issues can arise in a smaller class, and this is what we have found, as there isn't a kindred spirit for her in the smaller class. But the school is very good at ensuring they all play together, so it's not a problem, and she has closer friends out of school.

So friendship wise, I think the larger school was better (DD was just very unlucky in that her two closest friends left in the first two years), but she found it very hard to learn anything in that kind of environment.

But for me, the biggest flag is that the state school is not reassuring you that they can cope with him. That, to me, says that they are reasonably sure that he won't thrive there.

Every school has bullying, be it physical or verbal.

The difference between schools is how well it is dealt with.

Tbh, IME the schools that deal best with bullying are those that know it is there, are attuned to it, are very experienced in dealing with it early, and are extremely up-front about what it looks like in its early stages. You will find such schools saying 'we know bullying exists in all schools. Our bullying policy is x. Our sanctions for it are y. Here are some examples of what we have done recently to combat bullying, and here is our PHSCE scheme of work and how it matches our anti-bulling agenda. Please don't hestitate to get in touch with Mrs A if you have any worries about your child'.

The state schools I am aware of implement both internal and external exclusion, as well as managed moves [secondary] for bullying.

Run a mile from any school that says 'We don't have bullying here. Oh, yes, we probably have a policy somewhere but we never need it.'

Sorry, also meant to reiterate a point made above:

A thwe moment, your child is 4 - and compared to all these huge pruimnary school children, he looks little and vulnerable. Make certain that you make choices not only for the boy he is now, but the child he will grow up to be - the big 7 or 11 year old. A tiny nurturing environment that is perfect at 4 may be stultifying at 9......

The thing about state is if you don't like it or the school doesn't deal with bullying well - you have to put up with it, there isn't a range of wonderful state schools waiting to take your child at short notice. If you dont like a private you can leave....

My younger two went to a small private primary then on to state secondary (actually youngest is still at private primary - in year 5). School has about 100 pupils not including pre-school/nursery. Both of the younger two are quite shy/quiet.

It was fine in infant years, but became too small in juniors IMO. Ds2 had problems with one other child in years 5 & 6, and had nowhere to escape. The school were a bit airy fairy & 'let's all be nice to each other' rather than drawing a line in the sand and saying 'oi Not Acceptable'.

Ds2 ended up miserable, in tears every Monday etc etc.

He moved onto a huge state secondary (1300 kids) & hasn't looked back. Is so much happier- it's only now he's back to his usual self I realise just how miserable he was in years 5&6. Any issues have been dealt with very well & very quickly by the school.

The slightly worrying thing is that I can see the same happening in year 5/6 with ds3 - he seems to be being lined up by one particular child (both ds2 & ds3 are physically small - which may be why a particular type of child yeses them as a punching bag?)

Our reasons for choosing the private primary were good reasons when they were small, but those became less relevant in juniors and then the difficult side of small schools came to play. I'm not sure what I'll do if the same does happen to ds3. I already know the school's approach will be wispy washy nicey nicey & ineffective.

I would avoid very small schools in either sector.

Private is simply better than state - it's a no brainer

I would also ignore advice from anyone who is ignorant enough to make such sweeping statements!

Jinsei well put on both counts. My DD was like the OPs at this age and we chose a tiny private prep. Couldn't have done worse! She is 10 now and thriving at a medium sized state.