Interested in your opinions on funding of school trips

[AtiaoftheJulii]

I agree that teachers shouldn't pay for themselves!

And it doesn't make a lot of difference when it's a large group. But my dc is in y12 and a teacher is taking a group of 5 pupils to see a play near the end of term. This is just a jolly - the play has no relevance to their course. Looking at the amount we're being asked to pay for the ticket, it's clear that the cost of 6 theatre tickets is being shared between the 5 pupils. They will buy train tickets on the day (no advantage to early booking for this journey) and again, the guide amount given looks like the students are covering the teacher's ticket. This means that the cost of the whole trip is going to be nearly £7 more than if they went independently (becoming an almost 40 quid day out rather than a bit more than £30) which feels like a lot for a nice day out.

Is this fair? How small a group would it be fair to ask to split the teacher's costs? Should school pay for the teacher?

DC was somewhat indignant - I pointed out that actually they've done pretty well from school this year in terms of getting stuff for free, and that to moan now would be churlish. So this isn't a "should I complain to the school?" rant, hoping for a bit of discussion on how schools handle these things.

You don't know that the teachers ticket is being split between the pupils, often theatres do deals where teacher goes free with pupils. Get your facts first,this is entirely speculation.

Try reading my last paragraph again?

The tickets are £15 per ticket, with a £2.50 transaction fee per booking.
6x15 + 2.50 = 92.50
92.50/5 = 18.50 which is the amount we are being asked to pay for the theatre ticket. So I think I'm right about that, if not the train ticket, although as I said, the amount of cash they are being asked to bring for that is more like a fifth the amount for 6 people, not the amount per person.

I was just interested what people thought.

Teacher shouldn't pay. School should but sounds like they've decided not to.

So either you pay or you pull out.

Totally not right to bring it up with school though IMO.

It personally wouldn't bother me, the teacher shouldn't have to pay for the ticket - I doubt taking a group of pupils (whatever age) to see a play is really a 'jolly'.

If the school pays for the ticket it means something less for the school budget (which is tax payers money anyway isn't it?).

I always look at the 'value' of a school trip - in terms of what it will 'add' to my DC's life - if it is the opportunity to see a play which he might not get to do with his family I loathe theatre - then I would be more than happy to pay a little extra - ? If it is something that I think is just unnecessary

I just think there are so many of these "extras" that it means it can get difficult for families to keep on affording them. £40 is not exactly small change. Just my comment in general terms. Must be nice for teacher though, going to a play they want to see for free in return for chaperoning the pupils.

I never understand people who think teachers are getting a 'jolly' out of taking pupils to the theatre, on an outing, school trip etc etc. (And I don't always support teachers ).

Taking children away is a huge responsibility - I used to do it as a volunteer, we took kids camping (similar to scouting) - actually I paid my own expenses but that is beside the point. The effort and planning, risk assessment etc etc etc to take children anywhere these days is immense and to assume it is a 'nice free trip to see a play' is a real under estimation in my view.

Him that is a good question actually.
I agree with you that teachers shouldn't pay. This is work outside their normal working hours too I would imagine?

BUT the relevance of the outing is important (and IMO putting to theme parks aren't relevant. You could also say that a visit of Paris with an English guide surrounded by your English peers isn't relevant to learn to speak French either).
And clearly the smaller the group the more each child has to pay 'for the teacher' so maybe there is a need for having a minimum of pupils attending too.

I would say though that it is your decision on whether your dc will go or not.
If you do decide it's ok, then it's fair to shoulder the costs.

Ragwort - well, it's a drama teacher, so I assume she likes going to the theatre :) I can't see that it would have taken that much planning (buy tickets, turn up at train station :) ) and there must be risk assessments already existing at school for public transport, theatre trips, etc.

Part of the reason dc was a bit about it was that last year after her gcse's she went with a group of friends to a play at the same theatre, so she said she could have done the same this year for less than we are paying!

Taking children away is a huge responsibility - I used to do it as a volunteer, we took kids camping (similar to scouting) - actually I paid my own expenses but that is beside the point. Me too :) And yes, we pay our own way as well. Actually, these days, we (the adults) do loads of fundraising - basically work for 3 days in order to raise the funds to cover our costs.

Yeah, Lumieres , it's a matinee, so not too late home, but could mean the school needed to arrange cover for the afternoon.

I agree with you OP. I think the kids should pay their way and the school should cover the teacher. However, I should add that this sort of thing seems to be standard practice from my experience.

why dont you just all do that then? all stay at school. then organise your own trip outside school hours? sounds a good idea to me

Thanks, but I was looking for general opinions on school trips, not suggestions on days out!

If you want your DD to go on a school trip then you have to pay for it! This includes covering the teachers costs.

If you don't want to, send her on her own at the weekend.

Just a quick run down of theatre trip procedure in my school-
-research play, ticket and transport costs
-fill in trip paperwork (approval form, Calender entry form, transport form, risk assessment for theatre (must be unique to each theatre/visit, can not simply be c/p from last trip)
-submit, wait for approval.
-book tickets
-write and send letter to parents.
-chase permission slips until all returned or the world ends whatever is nearer
-send email requesting cover.
-set cover work, arrange hand over of relevant keys etc...

All this before it actually happens. Why on earth would anyone bother if they were just going for a jolly, I'd go on a Saturday, on my own time thanks.

Oh I forgot briefing children in advance of the trip- expectations re. Behaviour, practicalities of the day, preparation for show seen etc...

Atia - I agree with you regarding the funding of 'voluntary trips' and yes, I too have done my share of organising jumble sales etc to pay for the cost of trips over the years .

I still believe a school trip is different, and if the children have worked out that it is cheaper for them to go on a Saturday then good for them, surely they can then organise it themselves?

My DS is going on a sports themed trip in a couple of weeks time (totally non educational ) - but the fun of going with his mates on the coach, a day missing school and a full day watching a game which I don't have to take him to makes it fully worthwhile subsidising the teachers' tickets - I haven't actually bothered to look into the details - just looking forward to a long day on my own. .

lottie I think the OP made it clear that it's normal that the teacher isn't paying for anything during the trip. (See first sentence!)

Her question is more on whether the school should Psy for it or the students.
If its the students and it's a small group then clearly it's a big adding cost which can make it difficult for some children to afford.
I think one question that should be raised is about the size of the group, ie is it worth to have a day/morning out for 5 children. Do you need a minimum number of attendees?
The other thing is that if the school has to pay for the teacher's trip, then it might reduce the number of outings. Good or bad thing??

Why on earth would anyone bother if they were just going for a jolly, I'd go on a Saturday, on my own time thanks.

I don't know! Clearly she thinks the mammoth effort involved is worth it. Honestly - they have done their AS exams, none of them are carrying on to A2. She said, I'd like to take you to this theatre, do you want to see X or Y? (I don't think she's worried about their behaviour, they're 17 and she's taken them to the theatre quite a few times already this year!)

As for going by themselves - I'm not sure that at this stage it would be very polite to say, oh, sod the tickets you've already booked, we've all decided we want to go without you (!!!)
I'm sure they will have a good trip, and it will be a nice goodbye to this teacher, with whom they've spent huge amounts of time this year.

I went to a 6th form open evening last year where there was only one person doing French. If he was to go on a French trip (see a French play? I dunno, whatever they might do) should he have to pay for him and his teacher? That seems a bit ott.

I wouldn't be too worried about a small extra cost for a teacher's theatre ticket. But in general I don't think most people would agree that the children should always pay the teacher's share. It might bother me if it was a round the world cruise but otherwise it wouldn't.

"Small" is relative though, I guess.

I don't mean relative, do I? Subjective?

ok then, re funding

school pays wages plus pension. taxpayer funds this. tax payer pays for standard compulsory education plus costs of materials/heating of school/upkeep of building

anything beyond the statutory compulsory provision should not be paid for by taxpayers

therefore school trips which are voluntary in nature should be funded by either/combination of
fundraising (bag packing/pta type activities etc)
parental contribution
parent donations
sponsor donations
any other means of raising money parents/teachers/students can think of

the school needs to pay the teachers wage/pension contribs but the teachers travel costs/entry ticket will need to be paid for another way

school trip must be voluntary and children can remain in school for education instead

my kids school hardly ever do trips as a lot of parents cant/wont pay and we have no pta, nor is it a church/academy school with sponsor
they just receive the standard no frills taxpayer funded eduxation

I've worked in schools and typically what happens is that the total cost of the trip (including the teacher's tickets & travel) is divided between the number of pupils going. So, yes, the children are paying for the teacher to go with them.

However, often theatres etc offer a group discount, or a certain number of adults free with the children; so the additional cost of the teachers attending is nil/minimal. In addition, if travelling by coach, the cost of, say, a 70 seater coach is the same whether there are 50 or 70 people on it (so the cost of having the teachers there too is effectively nil).

Schools do not typically bill parents for the cost of a supply teacher to cover classes whilst the other teacher is on the trip - so schools fund this bit from their own budgets.

I have seen one school which also included an "admin charge" which was to pay for the admin time spent doing risk assessments, paying in cheques, chasing parents etc - but this is unusual.

Maybe the trip you are talking about is too small to benefit from a group discount, so the parents are covering the full cost of the teacher attending? Personally I wouldn't worry about paying a bit extra. My DCs are going on a ski trip with their school. I know that if I organised it myself, it would be a lot cheaper - I view the extra as the cost of "childcare" for the week! I don't think school trips are ever a jolly for the teachers, being responsible for other people's children all the time.