Is there anyone on mumsnet with sons/nephews/close friends at BOTH Eton and Winchester ...?

[TRL]

As title says, is there anyone who has sons or close contacts with both schools. We have offers from both for Sept 2016 and are really floundering in deciding between them. Am very happy to PM you if I know who to PM...?!?

I have read many threads where people extol the virtues of one or other but I'd really like some compare/contrast advice from someone in a position to see the differences ... if any ... suspect lots?!

Thank you

Eton is huge so it is difficult to generalise. However from the outside Eton seems to appeal to people looking for a brand: international City people aware that their DC are likely to continue tertiary education and careers overseas, and so prefer a school that is recognised world-wide.

That and families with an Eton tradition.

When our son was at Prep it never crossed our minds that he might be considered for Eton. The DC heading in that direction were richer and inhabited different social circles.

In contrast the DC we know at Winchester are very bright and in many ways seemed obvious Westminster candidates, except they wanted to board. It seems much lower key, with perhaps room for gentler children to blossom. (Some of the boys we knew who went to Eton were brimming with confidence even before they got there and could make quite difficult classmates.)

Not all the DC we know who went to Eton are happy. Part of the problem seems to be that though it is an international brand, the school itself is very English. Some might have been happier in an American or International school, or a day school like SPS.

The interview/selection process at Winchester is very personal taking about an hour and a half the house master has an excellent opportunity to get to know the boy in front of him. In contrast the interview process at Eton is an 8-10 minute interview and a computer generated test.
I agree about Eton being a brand and an international brand but itself being very English. Interestingly Winchester may on the outside appear more English but the heads aim is to make it an international centre of academic excellence so it's actually in reality much more international than it appears. Increasingly they are feeding into the top universities in particular the Ivy League because this is what it's parents and boys expect and want.

I personally wouldn't let the on paper size of Eton put me off as the house system makes it feel much smaller.
The only problem a friends DS has had is as a keen and capable cricket player in the 1st 11 at prep he's rather disappointed to find himself in the 5ths at Eton at a smaller school he might have been in a more prestigious team.

Zero I do wonder from my observations of Eton versus Winchester, whether Eton selection favours the boys who are alert to the world around them including teachers, competitive and cooperative academically from an earlier age whilst Winchester catches some of the dreamers or boys who are n't necessarily cooperative in school work or competitive enough to show it or have some interest in something but don't really try in other subjects.

A pretty good analysis of the type of boy who suits a Winchester summer perhaps you should add it to the Harrow versus Winchester debate on the senior education section.

IndridCold, that made me laugh, especially the bit about the Haarovian.

.... That's probably accurate. "Alert" is certainly a word that might define the A list. "Bright eyed, bushy tailed and precociously sharp elbowed" might be another description.

Iwould have been perfect for Winchester. I still can't see why they won't take middle aged women.

probably too many of us similar women around Zero for just one school. Would n't it be nice to indulge in some Winchester type learning for a few days. Maybe that is a business opportunity for them!

Zero your description "bright eyed, bushy tailed and precociously sharp elbowed" is very good (I wish Id thought of it) it sums up brilliantly all those from DS's prep who went there. I suppose this is why they have to read out their marks!
As the head at Winchester said this is not a school for "tramplers".

Actually it's an interesting point HG. Someone on this or another thread recently asked why they have to read out their marks and (knowing over several generations the type of boy who goes to the school) I was puzzled as to why anyone thought it might be a problem..... IME that "type" of boy positively relishes the opportunity to compete against his fellows. With absolutely no hard feelings.

Thanks abear .

OP - I would say that your DS will change and develop a lot between now and 2016, which may make the choice more obvioius. There are families who will hold places at two schools until the last minute, but with deposits at £1000+ per school it is not an option available to everyone.

I asked why they have to read out the marks. Why do the boys have to compete against each other? The only one I want me DS to compete against academically is himself. Does it really matter where he is in relation to his class mates? I sincerely hope he doesn't feel he needs to improve his marks to beat the boy who sits next to him, I hope his motivation to get better marks is because he believes he can. Secondly no one should mind being beaten by a better opponent. My DS was recently beaten by one of the top five adolescence in his sport, he was proud to have given it ago and on his third meeting with this very dedicated boy was pleased that he gave him a little more of a run for his money. But he would still admit that he this boy deserved to win, no shame involved.
The couple of friends with DS's at Eton who've commented on their disappointment with the standards pastoral care have also commented that their DS's have not made any good friends or got involved perhaps the competitiveness engendered between the boys is one of the factors causing this. In contrast my DS talks frequently about the importance of the friendships he's made at Winchester and anyone who observes then together will see that all the boys in each house are a very close knit group.

HG my DC often seem to know where they stand in their class, particularly for exams. They also seem to like knowing and as you say admire the dedicated / brilliant who score higher. However I would regard it as a complete waste of lesson time to hand pieces of work or exam scripts back to children and then get them to read their own marks out aloud. It just seems an exercise in humiliation for DC who have done badly.
Indrid does it actually happen regularly or was it for this programme?

My DS seems to rarely knows or perhaps cares enough to remember, he also rarely knows what his friends in other classes have achieved, he's very reluctant to divulge his exam marks to others unless asked. He's mainly in the top sets for everything but feels it's just not done to talk about your exam marks ect or what your hoping to achieve in up coming exams in front of those who may may not have done so well or will do well especially as it makes no difference to his actual mark.
I believe others talk about their marks but not in such a formal way as they did on the programme about Eton.

My impression is that in some subjects / teachers they get told what the top marks are so that they have a general idea where they stand. I don't think the top ones go round telling every one what they got, at least I hope not

Just to burst the cosy either/or bubble

here's Alan Bennett preaching at Cambridge (earlier this month) on the evils of private education.

And here's the Guardian article about his lecture.

I can't say if it happens regularly summerends, but it does happen; it may vary between beaks. And then of course they have Reading Over on the last day of Christmas and Summer Terms, when they have done school exams. The names of the whole year are read out in order according to their level of success. DS told me it is 'quite interesting' to see who is top. He knows he never will be and doesn't care.

I know that in DS maths class they actually sit in class order, and in DSs case it has boosted his confidence no end that he has moved from the bottom of the class to the top 4. Likewise, he is delighted if he scores 18 out of 20 for a Russian vocab test, but it's about doing well rather than being better than the other boys.

I do feel very sorry for all the Etonian sons of hg's friends who have no friends and horrid HMs and tutors.

Thanks Indrid.
Zero, he is absolutely right it is n't fair but neither is having inequality in the state system. The problem is none of us want mediocrity for our DC and whether we pay or manoeuvre in other ways we try to help them as much as possible.

I totally agree summerends, inequality in schools and educational opportunity is far more complex than just rich v poor. This story from 2008 is interesting on the subject.

Guardian

Fiona Millar, state school campaigner and Education Guardian columnist, said: "This destroys the myth that you are giving your child up for a second-class education if you send them to a local school."

How is it possible for anyone to so spectacularly miss the point?

I accept Alan Bennett's argue meant that private education is not fair, I've never said it is, or Christian I not one so thats irrelevant to me.

Ahem... Eton announcement.

I would agree Madrigals but the 'type' also depends on the parental influence and of course who they make friends with. Some pupils may be more prone than others to believe that they are superior because they are at such a famous school. I have seen the equivalent happen to students at Oxbridge as well, undergraduates more than postgraduates.

TRL Given that, as from September 2015, the new HM of one of those schools will be an old boy of the other (apparently) - it may be that the actual or perceived gulf betwixt the two will be progressively narrowed.