Private school v "Outstanding" State School

[willowisp]

?

We are in a very fortunate position that my DD has been offered a place at a selective private school. We also currently have a place at the outstanding state school, where the majority of her classmates will go.

DD is around average for most things, she's been having a maths tutor for a few months because she was struggling. DD is also the kind of child that doesn't put herself out there...everything is 'encouraged' by me, but she has benefitted from this & is much better (she can get quite anxious by new situations..will frequently shove her younger sibling forward !).

I feel that the smaller private will be a nurturing environment & the small class sizes, plus extra activities & encouragement will bring the best out of her.

Now she's by no means a little mouse, she's full of preteen attitude, demanding & really quite high maintenance.

The state school is huge, it has a short day with after school clubs etc everyday. They keep a short rein on all the kids & it seems, everything is tightly organised & managed. Dd would struggle immensely with this....but on the otherhand, it might be the making of her.

When I've discussed this with other parents, I hear the same story, that the primary prepares them really well & they get into the swing of it very quickly.

We have 10 days to make a decision...

Not in a 'W' town...I imagine many parents having similar dilemmas

My 'average' DD really blossomed after moving from an outstanding state primary (where she was middle of the middle set) to a private non-selective secondary, instead of moving onto the 'Good' local comprehensive.

The smaller class sizes made a huge difference to her - and improved her confidence. She ended up with excellent GCSE results (7A*/3A/1B), and is predicted As for her A levels. I think in a larger class environment she would have been overlooked, as was always conscientious, and also quiet.

The key is the school itself though but if your daughter is anxious (as mine was, and still can be), then a more nurturing environment is well worth considering.

How sure are you that the private school is any good? Some "less-selective"
private schools are atrocious and a huge waste of money.

Another factor to bear in mind is that the kids in the private school will likely come from far and wide which makes socialising more tricky and will turn you into a taxi service if you are not near good public transport. The state option will mean much more local friends. This is one factor I wish I had known about before we went private.

You also mention a sibling- could you offer private education for both children for the duration? If you answer to this is anything less than a confident Yes then I think you have your decision

That is a hard one. I'm inclined to say private, but before deciding can you can you find some parents that use the private school and talk about what it does well, how they think it would benefit someone like your dd.

Get as much information as you can. When you walk around the schools how different does it feel?

Check the results at GCSE and A level OP.

In a good mixed ability private school, the pupils should be performing far better than at a comprehensive.

DD attends a small, mixed ability, highly nurturing independent school: the results are terrific. Often outperforms the local grammar.

From what you say private seems the way to go.

If you feel she never quite hits her potential academically I would screen for dyslexia as that sounds like an indicator to me

Do you mean classes of 12-15 or year groups? If it's year groups don't touch it with a barge pole.

Look carefully at exam results and "destinations". For both schools. In the state school look particularly carefully at the results for low, middle and high ability pupils- do they all make at least expected progress? This says a lot about a school.

Look at the extra curricular opportunities at both schools- if the private school is very small they may be limited.

And remember, while making your decision, that the difference between 10 year olds and 12 year olds is ^breathtaking". The person who can't find her shoes in year 6 may well be a model of organisation in year 8. Try to plan for the person she is going to be rather than the person she is. Hard, I know.

How recently did the state school get its Outstanding grade? If it was within the last year or so that is more of an achievement than it would have been previously because the inspection regime has recently become much tougher. To het Outstanding they need to demonstrate that children at all ability levels are making outstanding progress. Not just the high achievers.

The private school will not have been so rigorously inspected so you will need to look at it carefully to decide whether they are performing well.

Thanks for taking the time to respond, it's all food for thought & hope you don't mind me responding back as below....

bluestringpudding I think this is what I'm wanting to hear happens.

piratepanda - the results are very good, the value add is excellent.

homebythesea - yes, aware that I will continue being a taxi driver - not a problem & hope to maintain DDs 'bff's' if possible. Dd2 is a few years off, but her fees will be covered.

marshabray - am on the case, speaking to another current parent in a couple of days. Have visited both, obviously 1 big, best kids on show, 1 small, all kids on show...Was pleasantly surprised at state & really enjoyed the private.

thewordfactory - have already done this, digging down, private results better. Not thinking of 6th from yet !

littlebearpad - I agree sometimes !

marshmallowfarm sorry to be ignorant, but wouldn't she have problems reading if this were the case ? Her reading is very good, even though he is loathe to pick up a book.

hakluyt - it's about 45 per year, 12-15 per class. That's a good point about low /middle sets...where would I find that info out ? Ref extra curricular, there is plenty going on at both schools & plenty (poss too much) going on for her at the mo. Yes I hear kids can make great progress & I've certainly seen dd mature in the last 7-8 mths. She is a summer baby too.

choccymoustache Ofsted was 2 years ago. I understand its been o/s for years, house prices reflect this too. Have read the latest report for private & states kids doing well & achieve above average results.

I think in the back of my mind are the comments I've read on MN about kids that do well at state schools, it meaning more because its been tough. I think my dd is going to find it tough anyway, so perhaps feel the best place is somewhere not at rough, but then I worry about the long term impact - will the work ethic be there because she wants it, or because she's made to have it ? I managed to pull a handful of o levels out the bag at my private, but would the state have given me drive ? (I secretly wonder not, because I'm quite lazy & not terribly driven or self motivated )
Very grateful for more thought provoking questions !

"think in the back of my mind are the comments I've read on MN about kids that do well at state schools, it meaning more because its been tough."

Please don't assume that state=tough! Loads of children of all sorts do well at state schools- there are nice children and parents there, I promise!

You"ll find out about low middle and high attainers on the school's league table page.
45 is just about big enough for a year group. I think that 12 is too small for a secondary class personally, but others will disagree.

But please don't fall into the Mumsnet trap of assuming that state school are bear pits full of knuckle draggers. Many of us (93% in fact, although only about 50%!of mumsnetters) send our children to them!

if you are being offered help to pay fees then for an anxious child i think a "gentle" non selective indie might be the best plan. it would be easy to disappear in a10 form entry school. if you had the option of a small comp then that might be different but you dont have that choice!

Thanks have found the stats - low attainers as around 15% marks, middle at 75% & high at 99%. Above average for similar schools.

Sorry, the school isn't rough/tough. It's in a very nice area, draws from a wide range, so wide range of abilities. The teachers are strict with them, making sure they achieve what they are capable of, that they are punctual, organised, no skivving etc. (where my dd may struggle.... ! but then she may manage it....) It's just huge...interestingly I feel Dd2 will be fine there.

I don't mean school is tough, but that achieving the same results has been harder. Someone posted a report recently..ok, last year

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/a1840183-Is-an-A-Grade-Gcse-from-a-State-School-a-better-than-an-A-from-a-private-School

tricot - it is selective, but not super selective I think gentle is an excellent description.

on Marshmallow Farm's point, you can have dyslexia and still be a good reader. DD has been diagnosed with mild dyslexia, and in particular 'slow processing speed' so it might be worth looking into that.

Thanks - I will google it.

To my way of thinking, the thing that can make the single biggest difference is class sizes. Now they are not necessarily always particularly small in all private schools, but if they are 12-15 in the school you're considering, then that could really help your dd.

And I'm surprised to hear myself say this to be honest. I'm a big fan of state schools, and think they are the best option for a lot of students. In your case though, if you can afford it - and it sounds like you can- then it does sound like private might be the way forward.

Hmm, well if money isn't an issue then I would probably go to the private school.

We can afford it (a sort of early inheritance & I'll be paying this rather than the mortgage) but I'm not desperate to send, unless it really will make a difference !

WHy don't you just name the schools?

Why don't you try the state school and see how she gets on? I don't think it matters if its huge, the class sizes will have its size limits anyway and theres a bigger pool of children, so she's more likely to find people she has something in common with. If its an outstanding school then thats great. You can help her at home too. If it doesn't work out then she could move to the private school in a year or two? Is that an option. My dc are at private prep, but if there was a good state secondary option I would grab it. But for me, I could scrape together the fees if I really had to, but our quality of life would be so much better if I didn't have to. And then there would be extra money to pay for other outside school stuff.

Whatever you do, don't send one child private, the other child state. The second child will resent you for perceived favouritism forever. (Except in cases of extreme bullyingir whatever when there really isn't any choice but to protect your child, or where you give the other child the choice and they actively choose state. But that's not what's going on here.)

"Hmm, well if money isn't an issue then I would probably go to the private school"

Why? Why not do something more useful with the money like putting it towards your DCs first mortgage. In the future it won't be the school you have been to that determines your financial security, it will be the extent to which you inherit property from your parents. Rather like it used to be a couple of hundred years ago.

OP, don't forget that those people who do go private like to justify their own decision by advising others to do the same. Whereas those that don't (apart from the ones who are politically evangelistic about it) often just sit back smugly and watch others waste their money, knowing that their children are thriving in the state sector.

Also, whatever decision you make, it will raise the bar for the next generation - I know parents who put themselves under financial stress to send their children private, simply in order to match what their own parents did for them. It's a kind of status symbol. In my view you are creating a rod for your children's back, as they will then feel the need to do the same for their children, possibly without the timely inheritence (and as well as buying a house, etc).

You'll be taking off a lot of future pressure if you stick with state, and your DC will probably do just as well, if not better.

Willowisp, everything you've written makes it sound as though you think the private school is the right school for your DD.

It sounds to me as though the local state school is the type of school that people sacrifice spare grandmothers to get their children into - is that right? And so you feel that you should really consider it.... But you know what, it's fine not to send your DD to it - and I say that as a passionate believer of state education.