DID I hear right? That parents of 4 rising 5s can now DEFER school entry in England??

[Tansie]

HAS England joined the 21st century?

I am delighted if this is the case but also rather angry that my May born DSs have struggled throughout school, and will forever struggle whilst in academia to be measured against DC who are nearly 10 months older than themselves?

At 17 you may say: What does that matter now? to which I'd say 'because my DSs were, at 7, 'only just 'good enough' (2s at KS1 SATS); at 10-11, just 'OK (level 4s with the odd 5 at KS2 SATS) then streamed and 'set' ever onwards.

I believe there is a statistic that shows that 70%-odd of Oxbridge entrants are Autumn born, thus I rest my case.

I look now at DS2; 13 years and 2 weeks, school prize for application, contribustion, effort, 'joining in' etc etc- but academically just 'OK' and think : IF he were at the end of Y7, not 8, he'd be in the top sets for most things. He'd be feeling bloody good about himself, his achievements etc etc. He'd be 'aiming high' as his results would demonstrate that he 'was capable'... however, he knows he's 'struggling' academically as he just doesn't have the maturity to absorb some of what's being taught.

Which wouldn't of course be useful for the boys in their 'correct' school year with non-tiger parents barely keeping up with a much higher 'best' to aim at, I guess..

The problem is though that the nurseries are under pressure to get younger children to defer because it is a cycle and they will have children who deferred the previous year still in nursery and who will be going on to P1 already, so you are back in a situation of defer or have a 15 month gap and deal with the youngest child constantly struggling to keep up. How do you break the deferral cycle????

" then many parents will defer for "performance" reasons " do you have evidence to support that ?

Usually those families who are trying to push their children academically will be the ones keen to start them at school as soon as they can, to gain an advantage. These "pushy" parents are usually keenest to send their younger kids to school even though they may not be ready in other areas.

Of the 12 or so familes I know well enough to understand their reasons for deferement not one of them have done it for performance reasons.

Madrigals, 5 and one month is one thing, five and ten months as in Scotland is very different.

Eh? Starting DS in EYFS at 5.1 not 4.1 clearly gives him an advantage. What makes you think the "pushy parent" wouldn't notice that?

We have made the decision to defer ds4, he will be 5 and 10 months when he starts p1.

I'd like to point out to other Scottish residents on the thread, it is ENTIRELY up to the parents to make this decision in Scotland. You do not need permission from anyone, not the school or nursery, it is parental choice - no child has to start P1 until the August start date after their 5th birthday (ie they could turn 6 the next day and that is still fine).
I'm not even sure this should be called deferment- if children don't need to start school until the august after they turn 5, (ie age range 5 years to 6 years - 1 day) why are we all so set on sending them at

And as for stats, well, look at what Maryz has posted about what happens where it is allowed. I can't give you English stats because it isn't allowed here.

Whoops!

Why are we all so keen to send them a year earlier? Maybe that should be the question?

doctrine- I don't agree- most "pushy" parents- want their child's formal education to start as soon as possible, not delay it.

Good point coconut!!

OP, if you're in England, surely the cut off point is end of August, therefore your May born son isn't actually that 'young'?

Deep, really? When those "pushy parents" have read the research showing those who are young for their year have a lower chance of getting into Oxbridge?

I don't follow your logic.

My daughter was ready at four and seven months to start school, so I was happy to send her. If all the children were within a clearly defined age range and were taught at the level for that age it wouldn't be an issue. The problem is the big range in ages and the youngest struggling to keep up with the oldest. If you don't have clear rules parents will change the goal posts to their child's advantage regardless of the other children in the class.

For us (as parents of 3 older DC), the decision to defer dc4 has nothing at all to do with wanting him to be oldest in the class, or not to be youngest, it is very much about maturity.

And not just maturity in the lower years, more important to us is what we have see in our own DC and friends, in the last 3 years of school.
The pressures on kids now are huge (very different than when we were at school). It was really evident that our 2 DC who are very young for year struggled far more with the pressures of exams etc (despite being very academic), as compared with their old for year sibling and friends.

There is a huge difference between a 16 year old handling Highers, uni applications and interviews (as dc1&2 had to), and a person a year older. They started uni at 17 (and that was after completing 6th year, not as 5th year entrants).
That's actually a bit of a disadvantage when you are up against English (and European) students in interview who are rising 18 already and competing with them for places iykwim.

I am in no way saying that every parent who deferred would be doing it for "pushy" reasons; but if the option is there, you can afford the extra year of childcare and you know that your child will then be one of the oldest competing for a uni place etc etc - then some people will take it, as they have in Ireland. I would.

scarlett

"My daughter was ready at four and seven months to start school, so I was happy to send her."

And that's great- many parents are- but what if she wasn't ready and you weren't happy to send her? Can't you see a flaw in what you have just said?

US research where it is much more common to defer is inconclusive but there is evidence that redshirts and retainees are more likely to receive special education services than their peers who enter and are promoted on time. The achievement of redshirts is comparable to their normally entered peers; whereas retainees perform at lower levels.

Advice from Lilian G. Katz ecap.crc.illinois.edu/eecearchive/digests/2000/katzred00.pdf

Of course, Maryz, and if I thought every other July /aug child was going to be deferred, I'd be even more likely to defer.

In scotland, the school year is March 1st to Feb 28th.

DD is a February child, she started school aged 4.5 alongside many of her nursery friends who are March children. So 11 months older than her.

She is in the top group for reading and language. She's sociable, lots of friends, very confident, never in trouble. So in short, she's doing very well, whilst some of the March children are struggling.

A February born boy she knows was kept back a year as we can do this in Scotland. I agree with her that he wasn't ready for school. However, when he did start, he struggled to make friends as he was older than his classmates and his friends the same age were all in a different class and weren't really playing with him any more (my DD did but the boys didn't). He was invited to my DD's party but he just sat looking miserable in a corner and refused to join in despite his mum's and my encouraging. He's not a happy boy.

I do think that different children cope differently. Its not really their age, its the child's personalities. Some cope at 4, others need to be held back, and others don't settle in school either way.

I hate these threads but am somehow always drawn to them because I have two summer born children. Then read them like watching a car crash. I had no idea until MN that so many people had dc who were born on the 31st August but were top of the class, or had been moved up a year, or had to do work with Y4 etc, so why should anyone else's dc benefit from deferral?

My ds was born prematurely in August. He should have been in the academic year below but I was told I was "not allowed" to defer him (turns out this was misinformation but anyway...). I know categorically that he was not ready for school for many reasons, one being that he did not learn to read or write until well into Y1, despite being with excellent teachers. He was not daft and realised that everyone else was doing things he couldn't, and lost a huge amount of confidence which he is just starting to regain as he catches up a bit in Y3.

Dd, on the other hand, was born in July and was very ready for school when she started. Is reading and writing well with the same teachers ds had. I would not have deferred her. But I would have deferred ds at the drop of a hat and I feel very strongly that parents should be free to make this choice about their dc.

agree with his mum I meant