Child Abuse by Teachers at Colet Court, Southbank, etc...

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Do the reports of abuse by teachers at Colet Court, Southbank, etc... deter you from sending your DC to these schools? I am registering my DS for school exams and I wonder at what point do you decide it is worth the risk because a school has had such a successful track record?

Maybe it wasn't really Mr Howes, the deputy head at Colet. SPS are sending out lots of information to parents on how they are dealing with the reports of child abuse and have set up a counseling service for parents to access after hours - 1900-2100. Prof Bailey seems to be taking this very seriously and the school is keeping parents informed. If anyone would like more info pm me.

Agreed, I bet it wasn't.

After all of the allegations, SPS is safer and tighter than it has ever been. Prof. Bailey and the new management team have co -operated fully with the police investigations. The Times have only just begun to acknowledge the school's willingness to help. The new management team cannot be held responsible for what may have happened in the past but they should, and will be judged by the manner in which they are responding to the situation now. As an ex SPS parent, who has seen more than one HM at the school, I would grab any place offered under this current leadership.

Prof Bailey is respected by staff, parents and most importantly by the boys themselves. Current parents are confident that he will deal with anything that is thrown at him, honestly and firmly.

It definitely wasn't Mr Howes the Deputy Head at Colet Court although I am sure he is aware of these threads as are many members of the school community beyond just the parental body.
Totally agree with comments made by pitch black the school could not be a safer place to be right now.

Ditto, pitchblack. Current Head and pastoral team at CC have proven the boys' security and wellbeing is paramount. Historical allegations a shame, but at least recent allegations, according to the Times, were taken straight to the authorities. As a current parent, we are very very confident and happy and so are DS. Best school ever

I understand two teachers at coley court have left in the last year and are the subject of current police investigations.
It isn't all historic I'm afraid.

celestial, one of the two teachers was investigated, and the case dropped. The other is currently being investigated, but not in light of child abuse of students.

The Daily Mail reports that concerned parents of a current Colet Court student have forwarded a letter from the current headmaster of Colet Court, dated 1 May 2014, which instructed the boys not to discuss the matter even face to face, and the headmaster of St Paul's instructed tutors on 25 March 2014, not to discuss the matter at risk of defamation. Attempts to "cover up" open discussion do not inspire confidence in me that the school management is acting in an open and accountable way or that the boys are "safest" they have ever been. Mominatrix, why were the two teachers being investigated?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2644715/St-Pauls-prep-school-betrayed-generation-Sinister-swimsuit-inspections-Senseless-beatings-Casual-cruelty-For-time-ex-pupil-lifts-lid-70s-regime-schools-investigated-sex-abuse.html

"concerned", or parents of a particular boy who was expelled? Also, I have, in my e-mail cache, all letters from the school regarding this issue. There was not a letter from the Headmaster from Colet dated 1 may 2014. Hmmm, I smell an agenda here. In regards to the CC allegations, all was clearly stated in the Times article you mentioned above. Again, very fishy....

The Times seems to have an anti Colet/SPS agenda at the moment, I was surprised there wasn't an article this week, they seem to be coming out with one a week. I think it is very sloppy of the Mail to have come up with the wrong date for a letter, I think it opens them up to libel charges.

Fossie's husband here. Regarding the Daily Mail article

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2644715/St-Pauls-prep-school-betrayed-generation-Sinister-swimsuit-inspections-Senseless-beatings-Casual-cruelty-For-time-ex-pupil-lifts-lid-70s-regime-schools-investigated-sex-abuse.html

I was a day-boy at Colet Court and St Paul's in the 1970's and most of this is news to me! It's not some isolated fortress country school, it's in the middle of the SW London suburbs! Some masters were a bit high-IQ-weird, I admit, but there was never the slightest sexual interference that I ever witnessed.

If anything like this did happen, it must have been after-hours and confined to the boarding houses (2 out of 3 now replaced with music rooms), which only about 1 in 6 of Paulines attended then, far fewer now - most boys being entirely normal and well-mannered suburban day-boys with a grammar-school-on-steroids mentality and very keen for any excuse whatsoever to meet up with our friends' sisters (usually from Godolphin, as SPGS girls kept themselves to themselves).

Mr White was my teacher for a year at Colet Court and the only physical discipline of any kind that I remember was to myself because I was daydreaming, he'd asked me a question, repeated it, and was able to walk up to me and give me a gentle but firm slap on the cheek to wake me up before I even realised he was there! So although that's beyond what would be acceptable today, there was no damage done and it had a very lasting positive effect on my attitude!

I do remember at SPS that some of the loud-mouthed older rugby players often got away with pushing smaller boys around in the corridors - until they tried it on with the much more introverted boat-club rowers who (being much more highly weight and fitness trained) made them very sorry for it. ;-D

The swimming-pool inspection story sounds like a gross fabrication to me - but I do know that it was held important to not wear anyone else's shorts or trunks to avoid possibilities of cross-infections.

The only single instance I can think of in my 8 years at both schools that could possibly be (malignly?) construed as interference was at age 11 at Colet Court when the whole school year had an official medical inspection by an external doctor, with the school matron and nurse in attendance. After the weight/height/eyesight check, the ear and throat inspection and full breathing check with a stethoscope, we finally had to drop our shorts, the doctor gently supported the testicles with a couple of fingers and told us to cough as hard as we could, then pull our shorts up again, it was all over in about 5 seconds. Anyone medically trained care to clarify?

Mominatrix, please check you cache again, here's header from Meunier email: From: Tim Meunier
Date: 1 May 2014 13:43:43 GMT+01:00

180 victims / witnesses so far. 18 teachers under investigation, including one who left in Sept 13 & one in Dec 13.

The teacher who replaced the one who left in Sept 13 (Mr. Fuggle) is Mike Seigal, he left his previous school Rokeby under a cloud of sexual misconduct..... the school absolutely accept this to be the case and justify it by saying he was the best classics master available.

All the stuff you've read in the press has had to be stress tested beyond belief - other stuff that also happened, some of it very recently cannot be published......

Some good eggs there trying to get it right, eg Bailey, but too many vested interests to get the required changes made quickly.

Also, I sincerely hope the the Mumsnet moderators are keeping a careful eye out for examples of 'shilling'.... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill

And I sincerely hope that the moderators are keeping an eye out for new posters with dubious agendas.

I would question why any 'concerned parent' (pace the Daily Mail story) would think that going to a national newspaper would be the best way of airing their concerns. Surely going to the school would be a more sensible approach? After all, both schools (CC and the the senior school) are providing ample opportunity for current parents and boys to discuss any concerns they might have: for example, face-to-face and phone access to counsellors, round table sessions with counsellors present, and offers of individual meetings for parents with senior staff members.

There has been no attempt by the schools to stop boys talking about their concerns; indeed, the many and detailed letters from the schools make it quite clear that there are many trusted adults, including counsellors and nurses, that the boys may wish to talk to, and advice is also being offered to parents on how to discuss these matters with their sons.

Is seeking the truth a dubious agenda? If the school were / are as open as you claim they are, I can assure you that you would know a whole lot more.

Much of what you have read from the school has not been generated without a huge amount of fierce lobbying.

In time all of this will come to light and in the meantime healthy scepticism about where you should send your DS to can't be a bad thing.

Suggesting boys should not speak to the press is very very sensible in most cases where any school is subject to press interest. However any boy has a right of free speech as long as what is said is accurate and plenty of these boys will be some of the brightest in the country and can make their own decisions.

Both schools remain some of the best in the country and most boys are savvy bright London day boys who were not subjected to any abuse.

Ah, the fact that only a minority of boys were abused makes it ok. And should any boy of any age be made to even have to make decisions about abuse and talking about it?

Abuse, physical, emotional and sexual has been rampant at all too many independent schools. St Paul's and Colet Court are under the spotlight, and deservedly so, but abuse there in all its forms has gone on for too long.

Both my kids were educated independently, but vitally at schools that encouraged freedom, responsibility and a sense of curiousness about the world. Sure the schools they went to didn't rank as high as St Paul's, but academic rankings only give part of the story.

Any headmaster who writes a letter which explicitly advises that their sons have been told not to discuss the scandal 'face to face' is clearly not like to create and push an atmosphere conducive to happy learning and moral growth. The fact that 3 days later, having been put to task by concerned parents, he changes tack doesn't really help much. Are vocal and passionate parents running the school or the headmaster and board of governors?

It's not all bad, Bailey is a good man with an unenviable task

The school historically punished boys for trying to share their account of events. It also gave clean slates to known abusers to go on to other schools and continue teaching, as well as keeping known abusers on the teaching staff.
Whatever is said here amongst us there is nothing to be gained at this stage from negating or denying what many of us experienced. This is a forum for what do we do to prevent this happening to our children, what do we do to help the victims ... Not another smoke and mirrors facade please. Anyone participating in trying to suggest this never happened is plugging into the abuse. I know, I was there

I'm only able to post about my experiences of the current situation at the school. I have no experience of the historical situation and wouldn't dream of denying something I know nothing about. Clearly any kind of abuse of children is abhorrent and I, like any parent, am very anxious to protect my children, and others, to the best of my ability.

My boys, strange to say, are able to think freely, independently and with a sense of curiosity. We've talked frankly and openly about all of this, and they're adamant that they feel safe and happy at school.

It would be interesting to know where lpd14 gets his/her 'inside information' from, as she/he writes with such confidence.

Anyway, I don't want to contribute to this any more as I can only reiterate the personal experience of my family, which is very positive.

Why should any child be in a position where they have to talk about abuse? And, the need for them to do so will only increase in the event the CPS decide to bring about prosecutions.

I have no desire to ruffle the feathers of earnest and sincere parents on this forum, but I do want to offer up further food for thought, so that in the event things do go seriously wrong for the school, those parents who have read my postings were at the very least offered a genuine opportunity to take stock.

I'll leave you all in peace and wish you the very best.

Sincere thanks LPD14! You precisely addressed the concerns of parents considering sending their child to any school where there has been recent child abuse. The shutting down of communication is something we expect in communist regimes or in the British press under the guise of defamation.

But there hasn't been a shutting down of communications!

I'm going to have one more crack at this.

I feel parents must always err on the side of caution where their children's welfare is concerned. The two most recent controversies, Fuggle and Harbord, happened only last year, both involving sexually related misconduct connected to minors. Given the enormous scale of the scandal emerging in the press and police enquiry, the most responsible position viz the school must be cautious skepticism and scrutiny. What are the motives of those most loudly decrying this position and coming so unquestioningly to the school's defence? If there is nothing to hide then good. Relax and let the investigation run its course.

To the person who wrote "shame" about the historical abuse, I sense your compassion and understanding are wanting. The past is not over, its not even past.

Just as MNHQ should be on guard for those who shill, they should also be alert for those intending to smear. Read about the Harbord case - it was NOT about sexual misconduct, and the police agreed. Read about Fuggle, it was not about sexual misconduct toward minors, but about having inappropriate written materials. There has never been any cover-up, and you banging on about there being a cover-up and deliberately distorting the facts as written in the Times is highly suspicious.

Mominatrix, please see what I wrote: 'sexually related misconduct connected to minors'. This is precisely what they were being investigated for.

If I have smeared the school, then I am truly sorry as that's not my intention. What I have tried to do is flag very real concerns that are currently the subject of a huge police investigation and whilst this is ongoing, perhaps parents need to be slightly less trusting of the pronouncements from the school as to the current safety and welfare of the pupils.

Meunier & Bailey are learning new stuff regularly about mistreatment of boys, and if this is the case I can't see how any parent can feel safe.....