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Original poster

Church schools - how can they get away with it?

567 replies

CountessDracula · 23/08/2006 21:33

Am I right in thinking that they are state funded?

How come they can pick and choose when others can't? Isn't it essentially exclusion on the basis of religion, isn't that BAD in the current climate?

OP posts:
CountTo10 · 23/08/2006 22:40

Are we happy with any schools???

Thomcat · 23/08/2006 22:41

Ohhh good point soapbox I now need to find a private, religious, same sex school.!!!

Cappuccino · 23/08/2006 22:42

okay soapbox so I wouldn't be able to have my child go to a school which had a worship element

but you'd have every school in the country doing just what you wanted

surely diversity is a good thing?

soapbox · 23/08/2006 22:42

Thomcat - why would schools be oversubscribed???

All of the current religios schools would be state schools, so the only change would be that there might be slightly less pupils in the state schools as some parents would be prepared to pay to pay privately for a religious or same sex education.

fireflighty · 23/08/2006 22:44

Why does anyone have a 'right' to have their child educated in their faith, if doing so requires a largely publicly funded school to be made unavailable to other (non-religious) children in the area, forcing them to travel further??

It doesn't actually matter one jot whether the church school is 'better' or the next nearest non-religious school 'shite' - the mere fact that the non-religious children (or those of the 'wrong' faith) have to travel further to get to school because their nearest school is closed to them affects their lives negatively, and the fact that children are being broadly segregated on religious lines also affects the local community (regardless of whether or not the odd non-religious child does still get in).

It also doesn't matter whether a church originally founded a school or not, once a school starts taking loads of state money it should IMO only be allowed to prioritise giving places to religious children if there are truly so many local schools to choose from that distance just isn't an issue. And even then I don't think it should be doing that, because I disagree with segregating children on religious lines in publicly funded schools, during the years when they've got their best chance otherwise of truly mixing with all types of people. Let the religious messages happen after school and at weekends and give all children those vital years of practice of mixing with all types of people, not just those of their own faith. Why does anyone have a 'right' to have their child educated in their faith simultaneously alongside maths, French, geography etc. rather than out of the main school hours? Surely if you want that kind of hour by hour integration of school and religion it should be something paid for entirely separately?

soapbox · 23/08/2006 22:45

I don't believe that segregation of our communities on the basis of religion or sex is good. Absolutely!

It doesn;t pass muster in the work place, or in any other part of life - why should it be acceptable for school children?

Thomcat · 23/08/2006 22:46

btw - in case you all miss my input, i'm off to bed. Try not to fall out you lot.
Night xxx

WideWebWitch · 23/08/2006 22:46

Good post fireflighty, I agree with you.

CountTo10 · 23/08/2006 22:46

I'm going back to the childhood hymns - did none of you enjoy singing 'Why did Moses cross the red sea???' or how about 'Kum by Ya?' and I bet you all belted out Little Donkey and Away in a Manger come xmas - I know we all like to think we're not religious but I bet you'll all be running out to buy your xmas pressies come december (if you're not sad like me and already have most of them). So as well as cancelling religious schools, are we cancelling religious festivities - xmas, easter - there goes all the bank holidays look at me with my wooden spoon out!!!!

Original poster
CountessDracula · 23/08/2006 22:47

well said fireflighty and soapy

NOW

2% of people in this country regularly attend church

Anyone know the percentage of state primary schools that are excluding children on the grounds of religion?

OP posts:
soapbox · 23/08/2006 22:48

Countto10 - I think you are a little confused

No one is cancelling religion! Just keeping it out of state funded schooling.

Everyone, including me, is perfectly able to belt out hymns when ever we choose, and to celebrate whatever religious festivals we choose to

Cappuccino · 23/08/2006 22:49

fireflighty our school is a C of E school and the first priority for catchment is distance; it comes before faith because you're right, distance is an issue

you start as a community school; for Christians, community is a massive thing. Of course I don't want my child to just mix with other Christians and she doesn't, not in any part of her life. Especially her school where, as I've said, she'll meet maybe five of her class in church as well.

obviously I can't comment on schools which just have faith as their first selection criteria but honestly I think there are a lot more schools than you'd be led to believe that actually do take children from their locality as a first priority

WideWebWitch · 23/08/2006 22:49

Countto10, but er, Christmas ISN'T about religion for most/a lot of people. And no-one's saying you can't celebrate Christmas/Eid/Diwali/whatever, they're saying why has it got anything to do with education, especially when the state (i.e. taxation) is paying for it.

Original poster
CountessDracula · 23/08/2006 22:50

I take dd to church at xmas for all the little donkey stuff, she doesn't need it on a daily basis!

I take her because I think she should understand religion and make her own choices when she is ready. I don't want her to feel that I have excluded her from religion in general. Yes, our country is nominally still C of E so I take her there once a year to see what the deal is. (i bet more muslims for eg worship regularly in this country than C of E though)

OP posts:
WideWebWitch · 23/08/2006 22:51

Oh and for non Christians community isn't a big thing Capp? Don't buy that argument myself

Cappuccino · 23/08/2006 22:52

CD I think the stories of people being excluded on grounds of religion are a bit overblown

I'm not saying it doesn't happen; I'm just saying you only hear about it when it does. You get far more athiests/ humanists bemoaning children being barred from church schools than you do Christians going 'good god, they let an agnostic in!'

cos your own statistics show that non-religious people go to church schools. They have to if only 2% go to church. otherwise they'd be empty.

VeniVidiVickiQV · 23/08/2006 22:53

What percentage of the population are muslims, jewish, etc that regularly attend mosques or synagogues, hindu's and temples, etc etc?

Anyone know?

Cappuccino · 23/08/2006 22:53

I wasn't saying that WWW

I was responding to the idea by a previous poster that Xians wanted to shut their kids up away from other influences in their early years

which is a load of pants

iota · 23/08/2006 22:54

My children are both at a C of E VA school

I'm not religious and they haven't even been baptised

What's more, we don't even live in the catchment area for the school

I certainly don't feel excluded on teh ground of faith

SherlockLGJ · 23/08/2006 22:55

Do you know what has just occurred to me ??

Original poster
CountessDracula · 23/08/2006 22:55

Cappucino believe me

If you don't do the time you don't get the place here

I am not saying they are religious, but they do the time (ie are hypocrites) Obv there are some geniuine ones but not as many as there are places

Last place I lived was the same

All parents who wouldn't hypocrite themselves got the shite school

OP posts:
WideWebWitch · 23/08/2006 22:55

It's not just exclusion on the basis of religion or supposed religion though. It's the fact that state funding contributes to church schools. And that doesn't remotely reflect the faith position in this county, nor take into account that religion and education may not appropriately mix. The no of children that go to church schools does not = churchgoing population remotely so a lot of people either believe/worship or say they do to get into a church school - a church school paid for by taxation!

Original poster
CountessDracula · 23/08/2006 22:56

YES that is my problem

I have no problem with non state funded religious schools

OP posts:
Tortington · 23/08/2006 22:58

shut it heathens. your all going to hell.

WideWebWitch · 23/08/2006 22:58

I keep saying similar to soapbox and cd.

I must go to bed now but I leave you with the story of my step sister who ABSEILED down the side of the Avon Gorge, which for anyone who doesn't know is a BIG scary cliff, to raise money for the church TWO years before her daughter was due to try to get in there. She is a teacher, she doesn't believe in god (neither do I) but it was the only decent state school nearby. Really. That's what happens and I think it's shite.
May come back to this tomorrow but most go to bed, night!