Church schools - how can they get away with it?

[CountessDracula]

Am I right in thinking that they are state funded?

How come they can pick and choose when others can't? Isn't it essentially exclusion on the basis of religion, isn't that BAD in the current climate?

I am sure there is no fanatical teaching at my local C of E school, I am sure they are not slagging off other religions, or even us non-believers.

BUT WHY DO WE NEED THE DARN THINGS?

No one has come up with half sensible argument so am afraid am marking that down as another won argument for the Non Believers....

But by teaching them one thing is right you are logically teaching them other beliefs/no beliefs are incorrect.

Unless you are saying that its just one god but different ways of worshipping him? Do they?

You and I are both asking the question, kaz33, and verily the hall doth ring with silence.

I SUSPECT (and yes, I know, this debate has got so one-sided that I'm actually feeding the other side a penalty shot ) the answer has a lot to do with a) money and b) Tony Blair's personal preferences. If the church owns the buildings - and the CofE do seem to own an awful lot of schools - then the government may not be able to afford (or, more likely, may not want) to buy them and maintain them as State schools. While buying out Muslim, Jewish etc. schools might be less of an upheaval, we can't be seen to have one rule for Christian schools and another for the rest. Unless you're Ruth Kelly , of course. It could also mean that faith-based education would simply all end up moving into the private sector.

Still - worth a shot, eh??

I have found some clearer stats from the census, just for Unquietdad

Religion In Britain
Census shows 72% identify as Christians here

(table showing full breakdown won't copy)

In 2001 the Census collected information about religious identity. The topic was new to the Census in England, Wales and Scotland although the subject had been included in previous Censuses in Northern Ireland.

Just over three-quarters of the UK population reported having a religion. More than seven out of ten people said that their religion was Christian (72 per cent). After Christianity, Islam was the most common faith with nearly 3 per cent describing their religion as Muslim (1.6 million).

The next largest religious groups were Hindus (559 thousand), followed by Sikhs (336 thousand), Jews (267 thousand), Buddhists (152 thousand), and people from Other religions (179 thousand). These groups each accounted for less than 1 per cent and together accounted for a further 3 per cent of the UK population.

People in Northern Ireland were most likely to say that they identified with a religion (86%) compared with those in England and Wales (77%) and Scotland (67%). About sixteen per cent of the UK population stated that they had no religion. This category included agnostics, atheists, heathens and those who wrote Jedi Knight.

The Census religion question was a voluntary question. Nevertheless, over 92 per cent of people chose to answer it.

Thank you iota. I shall bookmark that. But I never doubted your census figures - merely the interpretation of them. I still don't think one can extrapolate from these figures that, therefore, Christian schools serve 72% of the population. The huge gap between the 2% of active Christians and the 72% who filled "Christian" in on the form is still there, and has to mean something. My interpretation of this is that people wanted to put something and didn't necessarily want to put "atheist" (because that's quite a loaded word in itself) or leave it blank. Your interpretation may well vary.

In fact, other research shows that 2/3 of people in the UK actively oppose faith schools:

exciting survey stuff here

Be fair, my essential question is also "Why do we need them?" I've been positing the "what would happen if we got rid of them" thing - while all the time being aware it would be harder to do so in practice than in theory - simply to see if I could get answers as to why we need them...

another link to that ICM poll

Meanwhile, the British Humanist Association cites a New Statesman poll which claims an even higher percentage in opposition - a staggering 96%.

New Statesman poll info

Obviously, with all polls for and against, it's useful to know the context and the questions which were actually asked.

Thank Beelzebub I don't have the problem of faith schools to worry about - not many in our area.

I have enough of a job re-educating the Headmaster and teachers at the local (non faith) school that my religion is not evil, corrupt, devil worship etc etc.

Roll on October when I again have some fun on the educating teachers front.

Celia2, I had to insert another underscore between "faith" and "in" to get it to work. Interesting, yes.

OK, so it takes issue with the claim that "in a society as ethnically and religiously plural as ours, [faith schools] impede integration and social cohesion and foster sectarianism." I think it uses that argument as a bit of a straw-man, to be honest. I still don't see why society would fall apart if all schools became secular. I still think the real reasons for not abolishing faith schools, as I said below, have much more to do with money and the affiliations of the current Government.

Are you a Wiccan, SGM? (Sorry, I'm new.)

Hedgewitch UD - Wicca is too modern and formalised for my liking.

ah, OK. I've just looked it up on Wikipedia as I was totally ignorant.

Inevitable question - would you want there to be Hedgewitch schools?

Simple answer - no.

I am against all faith schools. I am actually totally against 'teaching' religion in any format to kids. They should explore and learn when they are ready and not before.

That's very honest, Celia2, and you're probably typical of the vast majority of people who choose faith schools. It will indeed be interesting to see what happens with all the inevitable political changes in the next few years.

France has secular schools. Don't think their society has fallen apart.

Celia 2, I am asking this because I think you might give me a sensible answer - please could you explain how your children's faith school is helping them in their faith on a day to day basis more than going to a good secular school would. This is a genuine question as the last time I was involved in primary education was 1982 when I was 10, and DS isn't at primary school yet. [honestly interested in understanding somebody elses point of view emoticon]

Also, Celia 2, do you attend the church connected to the school.