Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

Original poster

11+[sad]

56 replies

curlew · 20/08/2006 15:28

Does anyone else have a child doing 11+ in January? How are you approaching it? Private coaching? Working at home in the holidays? Or do you think they should just take it in their stride with no extra work at all? I thought/hoped I was going to be in the last category, but as it gets closer I get panic-ier. Any thoughts/opinions?

OP posts:
SKYTVADICT · 22/08/2006 10:08

DD2 is at the moment sitting a non verbal practic paper in our dining room. I don't feel that I am coaching her as such just giving her confidence and practice in the exams themselves.

SKYTVADICT · 22/08/2006 10:08

I meant DD1 - DD2 is 6!!

CaligulaCorday · 22/08/2006 10:14

My worry about the coaching thing is that I understand that if you coach your child to pass the 11+ and he does when he's not really up to keeping up at grammar school, that's a really bad, counter-productive thing to do to a child because he'll end up in a school which really is not suitable for him.

But Angela's point that "everyone else" will be coaching, is also true - he's not competiing against a standard, he's competing against other children. As I understand it, there's a definite quota in our area; 80% of children fail the 11+. Of those 80%, I'm pretty sure that a certain number of those at the top end would be able to manage grammar school (and possibly more than manage, flourish there), if only there were enough places. So I think the coaching angle is a bit more complicated than just assuming if he doesn't pass, it's because he's not meant to have a grammar school education anyway - if there were more grammar places available, some of those uncoached 80%-ers could do perfectly well there.

Freckle · 22/08/2006 10:22

I don't agree with coaching unless you genuinely feel that your child is grammar-school material - which rather then begs the question of why would you need to coach!

The answer is that most other children are being coached, so one wonders whether the whole situation has been engineered by teachers trying to earn a few extra bob (more than a few actually as they seem to earn anywhere between £15-20 ph) by tutoring.

DS2 has the ability without question; what he lacks is confidence in that ability, so I'm hoping that coaching will help in that area. DS1 saw a tutor for about 3 sesssions, just so that she could assess whether there were any areas in his knowledge which might trip him up in the exam. There weren't so we didn't do any more.

I remember a couple of girls when I was at school. They really struggled at grammar and eventually had to transfer to the secondary modern. How humiliating and potentially a situation for bullying at the secondary modern. So I would never advocate coaching if the child really isn't suited to a grammar.

CheesyFeet · 22/08/2006 10:27

I guess a lot depends on what you mean by coaching. I would be happy for dd to do some practise papers for instance, to get used to the style of questions etc. What I won't be doing though is teaching her over and above what she is learning at school - I'll help and support her with homework and schoolwork but not setting anything myself iyswim. I want her to have a happy childhood with a good balance of education and play, not a childhood geared toward passing exams from the age of 10.

I can't believe I'm discussing this now, she's only 2!

AngelaChill · 22/08/2006 10:32

Oh if she fails I shall beat her obviously {grin]

I want an idea as to how bright she is, if she isn't I shall make other arrangements, we currently live in a grammar school area which we are only iving in for the school so if she's not grammar school material I can move, simple as that and if I can get an indication at 7 then that's brilliant. I won't make a decision until she's 10 though.

CaligulaCorday · 22/08/2006 10:40

I think you probably can't get an indication at 7 though Angela. A lot can happen in the 3 and a half years that your child will spend in junior school and I'd be very cautious about assuming anything from a test indication now. You'll probably be able to gauge it much better further down the line.

CheesyFeet · 22/08/2006 10:43

@ Angela

FWIW though I agree with Caligula - I don't think you'll get much indication at 7 of what her proficiency will be at 10.

Freckle · 22/08/2006 10:43

Thing is that children develop at different rates. Some are suited to grammar at 11 whilst others won't mature until 13. My niece and nephew lived in an area where you went to the local high school and were given the option of sitting the 13+, then moving on to the local grammar if you passed. They both did and have not looked back. They may have passed the 11+, but their mum decided to wait that extra couple of years.

AngelaChill · 22/08/2006 10:48

The school seems to think that they can tell, if the child has potemtial they will take them and work with it and if he/she doesn't they will tell you whether to come back at 11 or not.
It's something i feel is worthwhile.

CaligulaCorday · 22/08/2006 10:52

So if the school don't think a child has potential at the age of 7, they won't keep an open mind about developing those skills and they'll make it a self-fulfilling prophecy that the child won't therefore be suitable for the 11+ because the school haven't focussed on the skills that might make the child pass, having labelled the child as one who won't be up to doing the 11+?

I'd feel very unhappy if my child's school took that attitude.

CheesyFeet · 22/08/2006 11:02

Singling children out at age 7 isn't achieving anything imo. So many would slip through the net. Just another reason why the system is wrong if you ask me.

SKYTVADICT · 22/08/2006 11:09

DD1 got 44 out of 60 on her practice test this morning and it has really bucked up her confidence no end. Last week she only got 28 out of 60 and was very upset. That was the new non verbal paper.

The only other paper they take here is the verbal one and she got 94 out of 100 for that and is very confident on it.

School say she is grammar material, I think it is just confidence which is the reason I am giving her the practice papers.

My neice teaches Yr 6 and she spent an hour with her last week (after the 28/60 result) and as you can see from the 44/60 result, something must have clicked. One section is still proving tricky though!

We are still keeping an open mind on choice of schools and will think long and hard

AngelaChill · 22/08/2006 11:11

It is a selective school, parents know that when they make the decission to send their child their. If you weren't happy in that knowledge you wouldn't send the child to that school. I probably won't send mine there, but if she passes their entrance exam with flying colours I shall resign myself to the fact that we are staying in this area with the 11+ as apposed to moving to where i'd prefer to live without it. If that makes sense, well it does to me

littleducks · 22/08/2006 11:25

Ok i have no experience of this from a parents pov but i took the 11+ ten years ago and have since tutored (for yr 9 sats in eng and maths) and i would say that practice papers are good and a little help from parents is good. For example i remeber my dad explaining to me that as my tests were mulitiple choice i should fill in the questions i hadnt done as i might get extra marks for 'guessed answers' and i think it helps to have practiced timed exercises and definately boosts confidence.
I personally dont agree with tutors it increases the pressure, but having said that my bil tried to teach my niece and was terrible, he had the poor girl copying ou pages and pages of instructions of how to approach different types of question, without even doing a practice paper so she might have been able to do that type of question anyway and didnt learn anything from time consuming copying. (thankfully they moved and she never sat the test) So perhaps if your not a great teacher, lacking in patience etc. a tutor is abetter option.
I would suggest that the best possible practice for verbal reasoning is lots of reading as this increases vocabulary knowledge and an idea of grammar and structure, so lots of library trips to choose books would be fun and productive.
Sorry for the essay

littleducks · 22/08/2006 11:27

i wnet to grammar school and it obviously didn't help my spelling and grammar

littleducks · 22/08/2006 11:27

went

Celia2 · 22/08/2006 21:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tigi · 23/08/2006 15:34

I too have a 6 yo, soon 7, and I hadn't even thought about the 11+ for him, so I am quite horrified that angela should be thinking about it for her 7 yo! It's a huge pressure to think about this early. He will do his sats next year, and if he gets level 3's (he got 2's in his y1 assessments) this tells me he is in with a chance, but it won't be in my thoughts until it's time to look round the schools )in 4 years time).
As per my prev thread, my 11 yo has just passed his 11+, and starts in Sept. We didn't look at a practice paper until the summer hols, and my attitude was that if he's good enough he will go, if not, he won't. Is it better to be top of a comp, or bottom of a grammer? the pass mark this year was 97%!

Freckle · 23/08/2006 15:38

It's not quite that simple, tigi. In this area, if you sit the 11+, the good high school won't consider your application. So you are left with an all or nothing situation. If your child passes, it's the grammar, if your child fails, it's the local sink school that no one else wants. It is therefore almost essential to ensure that your child will pass if they sit the exam. If my child isn't grammar-school material, he won't even sit the exam, but, if he is, then he will be coached as we can't afford for him to fail because of exam-day nerves, etc.

Piffle · 23/08/2006 15:39

Freckle that is exactly the situation we faced here - it's a disaster for parents IMO

MrsFio · 23/08/2006 15:41

we have the same system here Freckle, although I am hoping it will change by the time my ds sits it as he is only 4, thats if he does sit it that is. At least with dd I dont have that worry! I thinks its very unfair

tigi · 23/08/2006 15:50

Oh, ours isn't like that, you make a choice for 'selection' and another for 'non-selection'.. and most are okay anyway.

Freckle · 23/08/2006 16:18

The system is changing but probably not until next year's selection process - so I should be OK by the time DS3 is at this stage!

AngelaChill · 23/08/2006 16:32

Why are you horrified, she isn't aware of the implications or any pressure. Any indication I can get in order to help me plan ahead has to be to her advantage.