BLOODY A * TARGETS!!!!!

[Northernlurker]

Apologies for shouting but I am so pissed off. My poor dd1 was given all A targets for all 12 of her GCSEs. She's done pretty well so far in keeping on track for that but has always felt very pressured by this. She is extremely bright and works ferociously hard. Having the A as a target has not boosted this. What it's done is made her feel like anything less than A* represents failure. Today she did her second French speaking assessment. She worked hard, I worked hard checking it with her. She got 27 out of 30 which she is told is an A. This means she has 2 As for the speaking element. She is upset by this, she feels she has failed. In what sort of screwed up world is an A grade a failure?

Overall she got As in her mocks (which I think is damn good). I am dreading results day because every A grade will be seen as a failure by her and every A* as only what she expected. How the heck to I help with this? I told the Head at target setting parents evening I thought this was a crappy thing to do and I am even more sure now.

Interestingly dd's school is very big on the growth mindset thing. Can't say I've noticed it making much difference to her however. In everything she's said about it, it certainly hasn't been from a pov of embracing failure, rather it's been about not being able to do that yet - so failure is a temporary stage on the way to succeeding. This of course backs up the school giving A* targets - you can't get that grade yet but you will.......
Outside interests - she does stuff with friends at school and church. I am trying to persuade her to go swimming but she's not too keen atm. She is very subdued again today :(

Just googled the growth mindset stuff and it does seem to be looking at the positive, you can improve your intelligence stuff rather than failure is good for you.

NL sorry to hear that - it's such a hard road when your DC are struggling to see things positively.

I would have thought the speaking and listening parts of the French exam would be the most affected by a candidate's anxiety. If your dd has nevertheless managed to get a good A in the French speaking part of the exam, surely that actually bodes well for the rest of it? Nerves shouldn't have quite such a big impact on her written work, giving her every chance to make up marks and move from an A to an A*.

As for swimming - exercise is supposed to help with academic performance, and make you feel more cheerful, if you don't overdo it! A classic sign of anxiety getting a bit on top of you is to want to stay in to focus on the cause of your anxiety rather than get out and burn off some of your excess adrenalin in a more positive way. Both ways make you feel equally physically exhausted, so it can become a vicious cycle, as you start to feel too tired to do anything but exhaust yourself focusing on what is making you anxious. Can you go swimming with her??? Or even just go out for a walk with her for 20 minutes, if the whole getting to the pool and getting wet faff is too much hassle for her at the moment? Or even get her laughing at a few silly jokes???

If you can laugh a bit at yourself, it can sometimes break the tension. It makes you remember that life doesn't always have to be so serious.

rabbit the written exams count for a smaller percentage of the overall grade.

Northernlurker sorry to hear she's subdued. It's so important to try to persuade her to see things in a more relative light - there are far more exhausting exams ahead.

It is a very good school Tilly.. Its just though that with a bit more of an emphasis on the 19 higher ability students and not on the extra 14 students taken on . I wish the school had not taken all of the extra 14 Statemented pupils at a cost to the higher ability students learning.

"The Ex Grammar School boy" with the right Discipline and help is capable of 9 A or at least A grades , my DD could get 2 or 3 A or A grades and the other 17 " High Ability " students similar, the school should get at least 50 Grade As with these 19 students if the school channelled some extra resources towards them.

The problem though is if the school lets these pupils think B grades are adequate , when the students should be achieving higher grades.

Schools don't get a choice about taking on students with statements, as the statement may well name that school as the best one to meet the child's needs -- which have to be quite severe. If the other units closed down, your school presumably is the next best thing for those children, tough though it is on all concerned.

(I have one who combines very high ability with serious, and statemented, special needs, by the way.)

"I wish the school had not taken all of the extra 14 Statemented pupils at a cost to the higher ability students learning."

And you're quite sure these statemented pupils aren't also higher ability students, are you?

Well, no, Martorana, Motown did say that at least one of the high ability students has a statement.

Interesting to read this thread. I'm not so sure it's the predicted grades that are at fault, I think the personality of the child has a lot more to do with it.

y12 dd1 had (iirc) 10 out of 12 A* predictions. She wasn't bothered at all by this, although she thought it would be good to get the 5 she wanted. Was very laidback about revision, to the point of driving me mad - you just want them to do their best, and I could see she wasn't really. I told her I thought eldest kids were supposed to be the Type A perfectionists

y11 dd2 is the stresshead. And her target grades are mostly B's, because she didn't go to school until y9 and her targets seem to have been plucked from thin air by the FFT. She finds that really really annoying. She is aiming at As for as many as possible (and I don't even want to think about what's going to happen if she doesn't get at least as many as dd1). Her teachers gave her predictions for her 6th form college application (because she refused to write down the B's!) and most said "A - I think you can get an A but I don't like to predict that" which seems a reasonable attitude). She got an A in her History controlled assessment and came home and cried her eyes out. So her pressure comes entirely from within. (And I have done a bit of CBT from a kids' workbook with her!)

I find them both difficult in their own ways. When one is being frustrating, the other is a good antidote, but life would be easier if they were both somewhere in the middle!

I'll admit that I haven't read the whole thread, but I want to support the OP as my DD1 went through this over the last 2 years, she was a very bright student and had very high targets throughout her schooling, however I always encouraged her extra curricular activities so that she had a balance with her academic work. When choosing her options for GCSE she chose one for 'fun' related to her hobby (music) and was always expected to get a lower grade in this. I always felt there was little point in arguing with her teachers about the high expectations as she fitted into the will do well box on their sheet.

Her main problem was stress/nerves/panic attacks and she really struggled in her mocks to the extent where she didn't complete some of the papers and had to leave the room. This was down to the pressure she put on herself and the expectations of top grades.

After this Together with her teachers we worked on strategies to help her and to lower her expectations, focussing on the subjects she wanted to study beyond GCSE. She also took Rescue Remedy (not sure of the medical evidence but it definitely worked), ensured that she had arranged lifts to school so she was there in plenty of time to prepare herself for her exams and she managed to sit through all her real exams and complete them.

She didn't get all A* just 7 with 4 A grades including her fun subject which was a total surprise. We are now facing exactly the same scenario with A levels.

DD2 is in her GCSE year now and although academically able she is not one of the star pupils so she has predicted grades of A/B for her subjects, she works hard but not at the stress level that her sister did and she can see that if she works hard she will achieve her target or exceed it and if she doesn't then she will get a lower grade and it will be down to her, it is so much more relaxing. It is also much easier to motivate her, this week she has taken 2 tests and I was able to encourage her to revise without putting on pressure we were able to discuss the possible outcomes and she was really happy to have achieved an A in both.

Some very mixed experiences on this thread. I do think that in some ways the children with high-ish but not sky-high targets may be in the happiest boat.

DS's policy of confusing his teachers by getting As in some tests and Ds (or, memorably, U) in others, seemingly at random, means that his targets are all A or B. So the school was happy to let him bung in a subject he really wanted to do (dance) even though he wasn't likely to do wonderfully well. B or C in a string of similar grades looks just fine, whereas a friend with higher targets was warned off doing art in case it spoilt her perfect run of A.

In fact, he's now unofficially predicted an A in dance and may well carry it through to sixth form.

Powdermum, that is an encouraging story

Isn't it worrying that so many of our DC are suffering with nerves/stress/panic attacks and worse. I don't remember it being such an issue when I was a teen

Bigtillymint. I dont understand it either and I did GCSEs. The children have lots of advantages we didn't... internet, tutors, revision books, mobile apps and parental support so why do they have so much more pressure than we had?

Maybe that's a large part of it - with all these resources there's less 'excuse' to be less than perfect? And an ever-rising bar to jump over: more people going to university, more competition for university, more parents who went to university passing on (unconsciously perhaps) their almost-inevitable expectations ...

But then, my daughters have been the way they are since they were little - I could have predicted these reactions 10 years ago - which is why I mostly think it's just their nature.

totallyuseless - haven't you answered your own question?! I presume you were being sarcastic?

About expectations .... I do hope that both my DC will find a course that interests them, be accepted on it, and go to Uni, because they are bright and interested in many things, because I went and it was a good start to adult life, and because it may give them more choices for future options in life.
But a recent family tragedy has sharpened my perspective that I'm lucky to have them both in my life, and hope they can choose life paths that will make them happy.
It can be easy I think to fall into a competitive trap, and for what purpose?
Hopefully they will do well enough to enable them to have interesting choices. That is all.

rabbit, I don't think totally is being sarcastic - it just seems really strange that despite a lot of support that we didn't have, teens are finding the exam process more distressing.

Completely agree juggling.

Well, it seems to me that the more revision books, tutors, anxious parents, apps and internet we have, it stands to reason the more stress we will have. There's a massive industry out there, telling us that we mustn't rely solely on teachers, but must also download apps, look on the internet, buy revision books, see tutors and be monitored by anxious parents. I managed to get top marks in all my exams without any of that - way less stressful than quadrupling my workload by telling me I might get better tips here, there and everybloodywhere else. Since when did making life MORE complicated make it LESS stressful???

Thanks Tilly

I agree Juggling. When will the competitiveness stop? That's why I suggested sending the anxious perfectionist DD to a non-top uni, to allow her to get out of the competitive cycle and enjoy life a bit more. Mental health and happiness are pretty important, after all.

I wasn't being sarcastic in the slightest I was agreeing with Tilly. Funny how we read things differently.

Having thought about the issue I think children are forced into doing subjects they think they should do instead of doing the subjects they like. It starts at GCSE options instead of choosing Drama a child might be advised to do History because it looks better or when choosing A levels a child might be advised to do facilitating subjects rather than subjects they enjoy but are not as well respected.
When I was at school I just chose the subjects I enjoyed, that seems to be a thing of the past.

Dinosaurs, if DD ever gets that far, that is what I will be doing too.

The "Ex Grammar School Boy" is at DDs 1 School because of "Bloody" targets and pressure brought on by his parents. I have known him since Primary school. ( He is a Close Friend of DD and the school have used her to put an arm round him when he is upset).

He was given a " Managed Move from the Grammar" after several incidents the final straw being a breakdown in the Chemistry Labs last October. The "Boys"
parents insisted on a Managed Move and a letter from the school saying that DS "Could Still be considered for their Sixth Form". They then started "Touting" him around all the local Private schools , when no private schools would touch him , reluctantly sent him to "That School".

They are saying to him , that they will be disgusted with him if he does not get 10A* and back in to the Grammar. ( It is the Last place on earth he wants to go) The Grammar School letter said "Consider" nothing else.
They expect him to get 4 As at A level, they are Dismayed that his "Current School's average grade for A levels is D- not B+ of the Grammar School.

He is not helped by being compared to his elder sister who is Yr 12 at the Girls Grammar and is aiming for a Career in Medicine ( She is A lovely girl and is very kind to DD2 as her Yr 8 prefect) She is always asking about my Niece who was her prefect which is nice. She should though be sticking up for her brother and asking her parents to give him some slack.

I am a great believer in Grammar Schools, but sometimes even bright students don't fit in there. The Boy has settled down this year , one of the best things he has told me though is that he gets "Praise" from the teachers for doing something good ,at the Grammar nothing was ever said just expected. He is the kind of Boy who benefits from praise not "Just being taken for granted". I just hope though that the school can get him 9 or 10 A* and keep him for Sixth Form.

The parents of the ex grammar boy need a sharp slap and a dose of seeing what life can throw at you. I've worked in hospitals in admin for the last umpteen years. All I want for my kids is good physical and mental health. Telling your child you will be disgusted with less than an A* is child abuse imo.

Regarding subjects you like versus those you should take. Dd is interested in a science degree atm. Entrance requirements are biology plus another science. That's no problem. However she wants to do 2 (facilitating) arts subjects as well. So far so good. Her prospective head of 6th form firstly said she should be looking at medicine and all science -levels with grades like hers (which made me furious because a) she doesn't want to do medicine and b) we don't want her going for that sort of pressured degree unless she's passionate about it. Then he said she should do maths instead. So she e-mailed a couple of unis including Oxford and got the replies that no, what she'd picked was adequate BUT then we looked at Oxford stats for the course and overwhelmingly most people who got an offer were doing 3 science subjects (counting maths as a science). Only 7% who got offers had an a-level make up like she is proposing. Now on the one hand you can say well she is special - because she is actually a genuine all rounder which brings something to the table that the heavy on the science side kids don't AND there is an aptitude test as part of the admissions process which would allow her to show her competency (assuming she IS that competent ) BUT on the other hand you start thinking she SHOULD do maths instead of one of the arts subjects. That way madness lies I think and I am currently encouraging her to talk more to unis and keep an open mind. It's just very hard. I don't remember a-level choices being this fraught. Mind you maybe that's why I didn't get in to Cambridge - one of my a-levels was Theatre studies. Ideally tbh I'm not keen on her applying to Oxbridge but she's quite interested. Given how we're doing at the moment I have reservations to say the least.