Appeals 2014- Did your DS/DD Not Get Any of Their Secondary School Choices

[JohFlow]

Let's share ideas on how to appeal successfully.

Open forum - but no school names/identifiers please.

For parents that are facing this this year - how are you doing? What questions do you have?

Any parents that have been through the process previously are most welcome to share what works.

I put down two schools with a solid reputation and was offered one that is going through special measures with OFSTED and has had to merge with another school to stay open! I knew competition for the first two schools would be tough and we are on the border as far as travelling distance goes. We were prepared to travel for a good education.

I have a strong education philosophy (being a teacher myself) but if I am strictly honest the two schools chosen are personal preference based on quality standards and where I see my son fitting in. Do I need to come up with more water-tight reasons for my appeal paperwork...?

Over to you...

Bunjies - I think I may be less optimistic than Tiggytape about raising bullying issues at appeal. If the bullying was in the past, the panel may well take the view that a new school represents a fresh start and any school can and should tackle bullying if it arises again. The onus will very much be on you to show - with supporting evidence if you can - why your child remains vulnerable and why that makes the appeal school more appropriate than any other. As Tiggytape says, friendship issues are not usually the basis of a winning appeal, again unless there are demonstrable reasons why the child can't be expected to make new friends, as most children do when they start secondary school.

MrsCardigan - I have never heard of a double ballot and am sure prh47bridge is right. The school gives the LEA more names than it will actually need, because some of those children will also get places at higher preference schools and so there will be some attrition in the list. But that does not constitute a second ballot. Tiggytape is right that the box on the application form is for mentioning things like a sibling link and is not for general arguments about why you want a place at that school.

Another disappointed one here. DD missed out on our local school - 250m away. It's an academy with a feeder school, sibling priority and music aptitude places, so the numbers that get in on distance are low - 0 to about 15 places in each of 9 bands. We don't yet know why DD didn't get in but must be that her band is full of siblings or music places (or both) plus perhaps one or two who live even nearer. We know kids in other bands who got in from a lot further away.

I can't see that we would have grounds to appeal but it seems so unfair that she can't go to the school on our road essentially because she is too bright. Grrrr. Any ideas?

You don't need formal grounds as such. You need to pinpoint reasons, apart from proximity, why this school is more capable of meeting your child's needs in ways that the allocated school cannot.

Thanks panelchair, meeting needs isn't part of the admissions criteria (except in specific medical type cases), so I'm not sure why that would help? Don't we need to prove that they banded her wrong, or measured the distance wrong or something like that? Or do you think if we mentioned subject options etc that would help?
Tbh, it's a great school a few doors down the road, that's why we want her to go. The offered school isn't crap it's just not local.

No, but that isn't the point. If there has been an error which has deprived your child of a place - such as putting her in the wrong band - then you ought to get the place without even going to appeal. But secondary appeals are argued more broadly, on the basis of the 'prejudice' (ie disadvantage) to the child in not attending the school vs the prejudice to the school in having to admit another pupil.

So, if there is something about the education on offer at the preferred school - curriculum, extra-curricular clubs, etc - which makes it a better fit for your child than the allocated school, you could appeal on that basis.

Thank you for your replies. I've got it off my chest and feel better for it.

I think I might as well appeal as what have we got to lose? I know several others who are.

I understand you must argue on the basis of disadvantage to the child in not attending outweighing the disadvantage to the school if child did attend.

I just can't think of any specific example that could sway a panel - and not just in my case.

We all obviously think School A would better meet our child's needs than School B as we put that down as first preference. We might have thought it suited their personality, skills, sporting achievements, passions etc.

All schools have more or less the same curriculum so how could you win an argument based on subjects offered.

What we preferred (and our DC did too) about our first choice was the structure and discipline. How do you argue for that?

Panel/ tiggy, do either of you know if it's different for academies than community schools? No appeals succeed at our local school - I sort of assumed they were in charge of their own appeals but is that wrong? Thanks for the advice so far!

tiggytape - thank you. Very useful advice.

Hi again,

Perhaps the word ballot in my first post was wrong. But the admissions officer at the school, who was very nice, definitely did say they take 50 to 60 names (of children who sat the fair banding test) at random and send them to the LEA which allocates places. So not all those who sat the fair banding test made it to the LEA. How usual is that?

The school takes from within 2 miles of the school gate, but also take a percentage of children from outside the 2 miles radius. So that must make everyone who sat the test fit the entry criteria of the school's admissions policy, surely? Am I missing something?

Maybe if you post the exact wording that would clarify things mrscardifan? Certainly there is nothing iffy about combining a random allocation and having a banding criteria. If for example they state 30 places will go to those in band 1, 30 to band 2 applicants and 30 to band 3 applicants, then each group of 30 can be randomly allocated. They may well select more, in case one of the 30 gets a higher preferred school, but as long as the places above the initial 30 pulled out of the hat per band are listed in the order they came out and offered in that order it is legitimate. Once offered places get turned down and the lea has run out of the initial batch of randomly drawn applicants they will go back to the school and ask them to select another one or two or however many from the required band.

MrsCardigan - I'll have another go at explaining what I think is going on. You can ask the admissions officer at the school to confirm whether or not this is what actually happens.

The school is over-subscribed. It has a set of over-subscription criteria. Potentially, everyone applying for a place fits one or other of the oversubscription criteria so the school fills its places using the oversubscription criteria from the first (top) category down to the last (bottom) category. Given that the school is so oversubscribed, it is likely to fill its places long before it gets to the last (bottom) category.

The fair banding test puts the applicants into however many ability bands. The school has (for the sake of argument here - the actual numbers are immaterial) 6 places to fill in each of 5 bands, so 30 places in all.

The school picks 50-60 names at random and puts them into ranked lists for each ability band. The LEA allocates the 30 places to the first 30 names (divided between ability bands) on the school's lists, but is likely to find that some of those children have also been allocated places at schools they placed higher in their preference list, so not all 30 places are actually filled. The LEA can draw on the remaining 20 - 30 names until all the places are filled.

As the school is an academy, it is its own admissions authority. Therefore it is the school that identifies which children best meet its oversubscription criteria, carries out the fair banding test and conducts the ballot. The LEA is charged with administration, coordinating the allocation of places across all schools and communicating the offers to parents. The LEA does not, though, decide which children should be offered places at the academy.

All this is usual practice and, as I said, the school should be able to confirm or deny that this is how it has been done.

I'm struggling at the moment processing all this.

Thanks for the heads up on my thread about the same thing OP.

I spoke to the Admissions/Appeals woman on the phone the other day and although she was perfectly pleasant i came away feeling a bit hopeless.

'What panels need to hear is why a particular school is best placed to meet a child's needs - in terms of (say) curriculum provision, as with the example of Greek GCSE above - and why the 'prejudice' in Admissions Code-speak (ie disadvantage) to the child in not attending the school outweighs the prejudice to the school in having to exceed its admissions number and admit another pupil.' - all i can think of is single sex schooling as there are no other schools like this in the area. My friend won an appeal at the same school i'm going for, using this. There are no particular cirriculum things i can think of.

I'm also stuck on questions to ask once in there relating to PAN, Extra places etc How do i phrase it and will they volunteer that info? Appeals lady said contact school or LEA. Or do i ask in the Appeal?
Feel like my head is going to explode. Also know of others appealing so the pressure is on. I feel like i would have to draw a particularly great rabbit out of the hat to get a place.

My other Appeal is for the Catholic school 9 minutes away - can i get a letter from a retired Canon and friend of the family?
Are letters from Primary School teachers no longer used like they were years ago?

Not feeling as positive as i did but at least my daughter seems a bit cheerier. It is very upsetting when you don't get any of the places on your list and hard not to feel resentful at the crap hand of cards you've been given because this year seems to be a paticularly bad one compared to other years when people who lived further away got in no problem!

As well as the curriculum look at things like extra-curricular activities and the ethos of the school. You shouldn't win an appeal on the basis of simply wanting a single sex school. You really need to show that your child needs a single sex school and will be disadvantage if she doesn't get one.

You can ask any questions you want (within reason) to help you prepare your appeal and the school has to answer them. During the appeal the school will present the case for refusing admission after which you will be able to ask some questions. Try to stick to questions where you know the answer will be helpful to you. Asking questions where you don't already know the answer is risky.

A letter from a retired Canon may not carry much weight. Letters from teachers can help if they are willing to make the case that this is the right school for your daughter. If they are simply going to say how wonderful she is they are unlikely to sway the panel.

Thank you panelchair and tichy. That is more or less what I was told.

So my Reasons for Preference never did get read - which is a little annoying. It really should be made clear on the CAF that in this situation it's pointless writing anything in this section. It's basically a lottery and unfortunately we were not one of the lucky ones.

Last year the school took around 40% of their Year 7 from DC primary school, so I guess we were all hopeful for this year. A few have been accepted but nowhere near the same figure. I know of someone who put it down as second choice and got offered a place. Seems so unfair.

I guess I'll give an appeal a go. Ironically my Reasons for Preference will form the basis of the appeal as I pretty much wrote down why I thought this school, in particular, would best meet the needs of my DC.

Good luck to everyone appealing!

But you must have known the school allocated places by drawing names randomly out of a hat? So why would you think that the percentage that got in last year from your primary would be at all relevant.

Regarding the space on the form for reasons - the clue is in the C of CAF - it's a Common form that's used for all schools in your LEA. Some of those schools will have priority for social or medical needs and this section enables parents to highlight they are applying under that criteria and have attached appropriate documentation.

The person that put it as second choice is probably just as pissed off as you - but the fact that they were offered it means they didn't get offered their first choice, so it would be more unfair if this then meant they didn't get into the draw for their second choice. The way admissions are done now means that applicants are not disadvantaged in their application for 2nd or 3rd choice schools if they fail to get their first choice - which is the only fair way.

It's obviously disappointing for you, but when you apply to a school that allocates by randomly picking names there is a fair chance that you won't be offered.

Titchy is right. Even without the lottery element, putting the school as your first preference would not give you any extra priority for a place.

Regarding thanks for the invite to thread - you're welcome Bring.

Try to get as much information as you can before appeal Bring. Sources of help may be current school, offered school, preferred school, LEA, pupil access team, other children's parents, forums on here... I take the tack that you can ask any questions you need - so long as they are given in a polite way. People are generally helpful and nothing really lost if someone is not in a position to answer - at least you tried. Most of the info you will need is not really 'secret' as it is on public files.

In my area; I have had a few conversations with the pupil access team in the LEA. They have been really helpful in terms of providing information. I do think that you have to decide which specific questions to ask - but also some workers are able to anticipate why you are asking things and can provide further 'tasty morsels'. The LEA will be sending out 4/5 pages with their appeals pack giving information off their systems with helpful info. about the schools which we were turned down from.

I too feel daunted by the appeals process and possibly being up against families I know. I am trying to come up with strategies to deal with possibly sitting with people I am acquainted with outside of the appeals room - looking at floor, elective mutism...[wink smile]. I console myself that everyone there will be feeling similar things.

Panelchair, my dd has been refused her first two choices and I plan to appeal. She has marginal physical issues with walking and gets lots of support and encouragement from her close friends. They both have places had our first choice school. Her problems have only been medically acknowledged since October last year so not mentioned when the application was done.
Do you think this would be effective at an appeal based on being with supportive friends and her physical needs?

It doesn't sound particularly strong to me. An appeal panel may well take the view that she will make new friends who will help her similarly. By all means give it a try but I would recommend seeing if you can find other factors to strengthen your case.

I agree with prh47bridge.

Is the preferred school the only one within a distance that your child could walk to school? Does she have social issues that make it hard for her to make friends? If not, you may find it hard to convince the panel. Look for other reasons for wanting the preferred school, to strengthen your case.

How is anyone getting on - any feedback for others ?