Appeals 2014- Did your DS/DD Not Get Any of Their Secondary School Choices

[JohFlow]

Let's share ideas on how to appeal successfully.

Open forum - but no school names/identifiers please.

For parents that are facing this this year - how are you doing? What questions do you have?

Any parents that have been through the process previously are most welcome to share what works.

I put down two schools with a solid reputation and was offered one that is going through special measures with OFSTED and has had to merge with another school to stay open! I knew competition for the first two schools would be tough and we are on the border as far as travelling distance goes. We were prepared to travel for a good education.

I have a strong education philosophy (being a teacher myself) but if I am strictly honest the two schools chosen are personal preference based on quality standards and where I see my son fitting in. Do I need to come up with more water-tight reasons for my appeal paperwork...?

Over to you...

"Bigging up" your child is another thing that is irrelevant to any appeal and won't help win it. By all means couch it in terms of how the school will meet the child's needs, but the fact that a child is academic/musical/sporty/whatever is not in itself the basis of a winnable appeal.

I also 'big upped' my son and said why I thought each school would suit him - as a precursor.

JohFlow, can I say, in the nicest possible way, you're still not fully listening to the sage advice given on your thread by the experts in admissions and appeals. To 'big up' your son is pointless - it doesn't matter whether he is a level 3, 4, 6 or already sitting GCSEs. Any school should be able to meet the needs of a child, regardless of their current attainment. Where you may stand out at appeal is having a specific reason why school X or Y would be better suited to your child - such as a particular sport/musical instrument being offered by the school that your DS already participates in/plays.

My friend successfully appealed for her chosen school and part of her appeal relied on why a particular school would suit her son. The school she had listed as first preference offers Greek language in the curriculum and her children are half Greek (her husband is Greek), so part of her appeal centred around how beneficial the school offering Greek (to GCSE level) would be to her child(ren). There were other reasons within her appeal, but I am quite sure that this reason will have stuck in the panel members head. I cannot remember the exact details, but I believe there were over 50 appeals for this particular school and the successful appeals were in the low single digits.

Good luck.

Lol at bigging up son to whoever answers phone at the local authority being seen as helpful!

oh well . Time to get out the prospectuses again!

If there are experts in admissions and appeals - what would they really like to hear from parents at appeal?

As my MN name suggests, I chair appeal panels.

What panels need to hear is why a particular school is best placed to meet a child's needs - in terms of (say) curriculum provision, as with the example of Greek GCSE above - and why the 'prejudice' in Admissions Code-speak (ie disadvantage) to the child in not attending the school outweighs the prejudice to the school in having to exceed its admissions number and admit another pupil.

Arguments about (say) how academic a child is or how well the school performs in league tables will therefore be irrelevant.

Thank you for that PanelChair - I apologise for missing your name earlier. How easy is it for school to exceed their admission numbers? Apart from larger class sizes; what pressures may the schools have against saying yes to extra children? Do schools provide a number before the panel meets of maximum appeal acceptances? Where do these figures come from?

Agree with PanelChair. That is what any appeal panel should be looking for. Just to add that it doesn't have to be about curriculum provision although that is obviously very useful. It can be about extra-curricular activities such as clubs. For example, your child may be particularly interested in music and the appeal school has a school orchestra and other musical activities but the offered school doesn't. It can also be about things such as the appeal school being more or less formal than the offered school. Anything about the appeal school that is missing from the offered school and that you can show will be of particular benefit to your child.

By the way, there should be no need for an FoI request for any information from the LA. They are required to answer any question you reasonably ask to help you prepare for your appeal.

Taking your points in turn -

It's not really a matter of being 'easy' or not to exceed the admission number. The Published Admission Number is calculated according to the available space within the school etc etc and the school/LEA will not voluntarily exceed that number. The only exceptions are in the case of additional pupils being admitted via appeal or via the Fair Access Protocol.

The sorts of arguments that the school/LEA will advance against admitting additional pupils on appeal are usually along the lines of classrooms too cramped/not enough work stations in language or science labs/crowding in corridors and communal areas/logistical difficulties in getting more pupils through the dining hall at lunchtime etc.

The school can certainly not indicate to the panel how many extra pupils it is willing to accept, for several reasons. First, the panel is independent and cannot be lobbied by the school. It is for the panel to decide how many or how few appeals it will allow, based on the strength of each case: if the panel is minded to allow several appeals for the same school, it has to decide whether the school can reasonably cope with them all or whether the panel should allow only a lower number and therefore put the potentially successful appeals into order of priority. Second, if the school is going into appeals with the attitude that it is willing to exceed PAN and admit a certain number on appeal then that implies that the PAN ought to change, not that there should be a quota each year for appeals. Schools/LEAs always take the line at appeal that the PAN is the PAN and should not be exceeded as that would prejudice the education offered to existing pupils.

That's good information.

What legislation/guidelines are studied before conduct of appeals? You have already mentioned the LEA Access Protocol, School Admission Appeals Code...what else is useful?

Also any good books/articles on the process to read (read what is in the public domain from the LEA)?

If a child has a particular talent/interest what evidence of that would be accepted at appeal? Is evidence above the parent's description always needed?

The School Admissions Code and Admissions Appeal Code are both available online, if you google for them. Make sure you get the current versions.

The Fair Access Protocol applies in very specific circumstances and is highly unlikely to be relevant to your appeal.

As for particular talent: what the appeal panel is looking for is evidence that the child has a particular need, that the preferred school can meet that need and that the allocated school can't. Panels don't always insist on documentary evidence (at least, the ones I chair don't) but any statements made by the parent have to be credible. So if, for argument's sake, you were arguing that your child was very musical and that made the preferred school the only suitable one, it would be useful if you could produce (for instance) evidence that your child had passed some grade exams on an instrument and that (say) the preferred school had an orchestra and the allocated school did not.

What the panel is not looking for, on the other hand, is any sort of argument along the lines that "my child is too academic/musical/sporty/whatever to go to the allocated school". That will never win an appeal.

So it seems more about substantiation rather than written documentation.

What if a child has a particular talent that the parents are aware of and the previous school has commented on - and they pursue this all the time at home ; but the parents haven't been able to pay for professional lessons? What that also be covered in the term 'need'?

Please keep your comments coming and chat amongst yourselves. I am taking a break to update my partner on today's events. I will be back in the morning.

Thank you to all contributors so far. Hope people are finding the forum useful....

What if a child has a particular talent that the parents are aware of and the previous school has commented on - and they pursue this all the time at home ; but the parents haven't been able to pay for professional lessons? What that also be covered in the term 'need'?

Difficult to say as you are being so opaque! But, potentially, I think it could be regarded as a need, if (as I assume) you mean that the child has a particular aptitude or interest and the appeal school can provide the opportunities/facilities to pursue that aptitude or interest and the allocated school can't.

That's what I am implying yes. My son jumps up to dances and act every time music comes on the telly. He watches talent shows endlessly. The school have made comments on his report about how they think he has a natural talent in this area. School holiday club has a dance mat which he is always on. We considered dance lessons for him (of which he is keen) but money just wouldn't stretch (I am at home with a spinal injury). The offered schools hall is out of use due to building work and boys not not join dance club for fear of getting picked on - but the preferred school has a dance studio, gym equipment, extra curricular club and professional dance trainers. There are boys in with the girls and they're unique physicality is celebrated.

Hi - can I join? dd was offered her 2nd choice school which is a good school, and our closest one, but not the one she really wanted. She has had issues in the past to do with bullying which involved her moving to another primary school on appeal. She has now made some lovely friends but they will be going to her first choice school & I am worried that losing her support network will set her back. In addition her 1st choice school offers a GCSE in Textiles which was one of the deciding factors in choosing this school as she is a keen sewer and has ambitions to study fashion.

Are either of these reasons good enough for an appeal?

Apologies - just realised this thread is for those who didn't get any of their choices.

Thanks tiggytape - that's really helpful. Do you know whether if we
do appeal she would lose the place she already has? I don't want to put her at risk of not getting either school.

No you won't lose your current place just because you appeal. An appeal is a one way bet. You don't lose anything and you might get a place at your preferred school.

Sorry this is long, but a bit to explain.

We have not been given our first choice - an academy which had a fair banding test.

I have spoken to the school and they said they had just under 30 places to allocate after siblings, year 6 coming through. They said they had over 400 children apply. So very long odds indeed, I know.

The school take the results from the banding test and randomly select a handful of children from each of the 5 bands (first ballot). Not sure why they select such a small number tbh. They then send these names (around 50) on to the LEA who finally allocate the places (second ballot). The others don't get a look in. I don't see why every child who sat the exam should not be put forward for possible allocation. Not sure I was aware of that.

Here's what is making me cross. On the CAF under the Reasons for Preference section I wrote a heartfelt piece why I thought this school in particular would be most suited to my child. When I was writing it I fully realised that it might not make any difference, but as it was an available option I duly filled it in.

I have now been made aware that the school do not read the Reasons for Preference and indeed never see the CAF. It's the LEA who read it (although when I rang up to confirm this they weren't too sure).

So, my gripe is that if we were not put forward for the second ballot the LEA would not have read my Reasons for Preference either. They had no need to as my son's name was not on their list. So, my issue is that nobody will have actually read it. Why is it included on the CAF when for this school it is not relevant (unless you're lucky enough to get through to the second ballot where it might get read)?

And if we were lucky enough to get through to the second ballot I would like to know who read it and the reasons for their refusal. We live less than 0.5 miles away and several of my DS classmates have got places.

Is this how all academies work? It's basically a lottery where you have to be picked out twice.

I'm not sure whether to appeal or not. I know the success rate is not high. I am just feeling so very cross about the application process. What grounds would I have? That I had a right for my Reasons for Preference section be read by someone/anyone?

Thanks for listening.

Thanks prh47bridge. That makes the decision to appeal a lot easier .

mrscardigan - I think there is a bit of confusion about the ballot. There should only be one. The LA won't use a ballot to sort out who gets places from the list returned by the school. The school's list will be ordered based on their admission criteria (a little complex when fair banding is involved). The LA will then offer places to the people at the head of the list unless they also get an offer from a higher preference school.