High earners to pay for their children state schools

[Verycold]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-25798659

Sweet dreams guys.

GABA : are you a resident of James Turner street?

Actually we did move out of the UK for numerous reasons....and yes we did move to a country where the tax is lower....We go private in every aspect of our lives...We do not regret it and we still pay tax on our UK earnings but I think that is fair...

I still don't see why MC should pay more...

In answer to gaba I have already moved from a country that has much higher tax than the uk. I would move to asia in a shot if it was not for mine and dh parents in particular who are getting older now and seem to need us more. Also keen for my children to grow up close to family. Fully aware I would be better off financially esp in the middle east, I have two cousins living there on a completely tax free deal but life isn' t all about money and I quite like living in the uk...

In answer to gaba I have already moved from a country that has much higher tax than the uk. I would move to asia in a shot if it was not for mine and dh parents in particular who are getting older now and seem to need us more. Also keen for my children to grow up close to family. Fully aware I would be better off financially esp in the middle east, I have two cousins living there on a completely tax free deal but life isn' t all about money and I quite like living in the uk...

In answer to gaba I have already moved from a country that has much higher tax than the uk. I would move to asia in a shot if it was not for mine and dh parents in particular who are getting older now and seem to need us more. Also keen for my children to grow up close to family. Fully aware I would be better off financially esp in the middle east, I have two cousins living there on a completely tax free deal but life isn' t all about money and I quite like living in the uk...

What is gaba's point again?

Is it that middle income taxpayers whine but can't do anything about it?

I know quite a few expats, it has always happened hasn't it? And not just the very rich but the technically trained are in demand (and I would argue it makes a bigger difference to your standard of living at that level.) It's unlikely to be feasible to emigrate if you are working for the council.

I come from a line of economic nomads so it seems self-evident that young, active people can get out of unfavourable situations. Cheer up gab!

I agree with that. I worked in the US and got two weeks holiday. This was the financial sector so although the pay was generous the industry follows the NY Stock Exchange so if that's open, the company's open. Consequently one is back to work on Boxing Day! On a secondment from the UK one might be able to carry across one's previous t&a but unlikely and as charleybarley notes, not very impressive.

I have a friend who is a non-dom - anywhere. He roams around avoiding tax. It's a full-time job and at the moment he is living in South Africa. I would rather pay high tax and not have to live in an armed compound, thank you very much.

I agree with some of what you say charleybarley - I am European though, so for me, moving around is sort of the norm. Not all US companies work longer hours than the UK though. When I was there recently (big financial company), I was the last one in the office almost every single day. I also worked for another big financial company over there ages ago. HoI do always work until 7pm even now though, and previously work until 9pm (in London). I know the US can be difficult - just as the UK can be difficult. But in both cases, there are perks, too.

I don't think you have to take the £80k amount literally though. For example, our household income is around £100k. For the jobs my DH and I do, we would get paid much more in the US though, and our household income would be more around the $250k+ mark.

The most visible example would be the wages of specialist doctors (not just GPs) in the US. They get paid a lot more than the ones employed by the NHS.

We are probably going to stay in the UK for the time being (if not until we retire). But unlike what gaba says it would be through choice... rather than being stuck here! That's all I wanted to point out really.

Chicago the windy city??? Is it actually nice there?

One of my friends lived there (she now moved to Germany). Another has moved there just a few years ago. Maybe I should visit...

The one city I would really like to live in is San Francisco. A former colleague now lives there. My former flatmate grew up there, and now lives a few hours away. She and her SH are planning to buy a weekend home there though, and I am awaiting an invite.

Love, love, love that place.

I meand DH not SH...

Looks like I hit a raw nerve with this.

I am assuming all those removed comments were insults directed at me?
I saw one or two the other night...
All I am telling you is the truth, and you know it is, hence all the vitriol.

Once again, I don't think you should pay so much tax. I am not the tax man. You will pay moor tax, and you will put up with it, if not you would have been long gone.

Instead of denial of the self evident facts here, why not just stick to personal attacks. (They are more productive)

Did anyone get my riddle about the sweet contributions I pay?

1. Many of us have already moved hundreds of miles for work. Plenty of women do (and countries). I think the thread shows that is so. Those of us in business see it all the time.

1. Someone mentioned Sierre Leone - amazingly (coinicidence) I was on the phone to a client yesterday who is doing business there (although does not live there) and it is an example of where it is not a great place to live (safety not great) but that does mean Monaco, Cayman, Switzerland are not sfe and if tax became too awful of course we'd leave. When the UK had 99% highest tax rates people left all the time even more so than now with the 47% upper tax/NI rate + other hidden taxes we now have.

1. I am in favour a 20% tax/NI rate for all, a flat tax with a much much smaller state.

1. I don't agree that those women who earn the most in the UK sit around in offices not doing much. Most people in the UK who earn a lot tend as at least one factor to have got there by a lot of old fashioned hard work, long hours and the like. It is not a competition with cleaners queuing for buses at 5.30am as of course there are plenty on lower wages who work hard but plenty of senior higher paid people will work without over time, work through the night, work 16 hour days (I started at about 6.30am the day before yesterday and ended at 10pm and many people do that for months and months if not years)

Gaba....I have no idea what work places you frequent, if you work, ...i don't know anyone at mine that swans around not doing much ...most of us work with international clients - internal and external - and that means conference calls at unsociable hours ...when you are in a senior and well paid position that kind of goes with the territory and no-one asks for days off in lieu if they work a weekend and there's no concept overtime.

I do think you've tried your hardest to inflame and bait and personally attack in many comments hence the negative reaction you've had.

Your dismissive jibes on lack of mobility of even the professional skilled m/c are completely wide of the mark ...and shows well ....that you probably don't inhabit that world or have never even been close to it.

Gaba, I've got it in the neck for suggesting people on £80k a year shouldn't really feel poor, given the national median salary, but actually I don't think you're right about international job markets.

One of my DS' godparents is about to move to Texas for work for a few years. Of my friends from school and uni, 1 is in Panama, 8 are in the USA, 7 are in Australia and New Zealand, 2 in South Africa, 2 in Oman,1 in the Cayman Islands, 1 in Canada, and 4 in the European Union. All are professionals who have moved for quality of life reasons (which would include pay), with the exception of the guy in Panama who works for the Foreign Office so admittedly can be sent anywhere, or indeed recalled. And while there are accountants, entertainment industry workers and management accountants in that mix (alongside academics whose work is necessarily international) they also include teachers, engineers and an A & E registrar, none of whom we can easily afford to lose from the national workforce - especially the A & E doctor. And I'm not sure the national solution of poaching key workers from the developing world, to plug those gaps, is exactly fair on those developing nations either. I don't really have a solution, but it is a real problem. It's a far more international world than you seem to realise, for English speakers with good qualifications.

And with the best will in the world, it's rather narcissistic to imagine anyone is at all interested in what you do for a living, surely?

it is true that most of us need to feel tax is unacceptable (or life chances bad) before we move. The Irish move abroad a lot. I was just reading in today's FT about two brothers in their 20s with an internet payment system worth many millions. They moved to the states for university and beyond. If things get to bad at home people emigrate or spend most of their time abroad. So it is not wrong to suggest that at various times including today people move although you need to funds to pay for your airfare etc so not everyone of course can afford it but higher earners can.

As for the more interesting issue of whether those of us swanning about in offices earning £80k to £300k+ do very little whilst cleaners and factory production line workers work at lot harder that is very hard to answer. If you are female surgeon you do tend to have had to put in the hours. Same with barristers on £10k a year going to courts all over the UK at the crack of dawn and preparing for the case until mid night and many a City worker working a deal where you are always available. I was dealing with someone in another time zone this week so I was working into the evening late and then a few early starts.

I imagine most of us who are higher earners on this thread would certainly admit that our jobs are ones we prefer over public toilet cleaning or serving in a shop and that is why we picked the jobs we do. We tend to sit down most of the day and that is less tiring than if you're on your feet all day.

(In my para 2 I meant does NOT mean, obviously)

My intention also was not to say those in low pay don't work hard ...nurses, cleaners, roadworkers, nursery nurse etc. I would find those jobs harder than my own tbh but some professions are obviously more "capitalist" than others because they are for an industry that is money making or require a skill set that takes years to obtain or is rarer (e.g. surgeon) ...where the entry is much more competitive and harder (eg top flight academics) the pay tends to be better because the commodity is rarer...it doesn't mean it's "better" than another job - we need good nurses and firemen but I don't think anyone goes into nursing or the fire service for the money and the ease of entry into those vocations are not as hard as being a QC obviously.

In some senior positions in business you may well be putting in less graft or hours than junior folk but usually you are paid very well at that stage more for your "judgment" on high risk decisions or superior expertise ... usually after you have got there after several years of graft or at least career building in a more junior position.

Yes, you are paid for your expertise which most people don't have in many of those types of jobs whether it be knowledge of the inner ear as a surgeon or complex laws or regulations or advice on whether to buy business A not B.

Exactly ...the level of your expertise sets your price at least in the professions...and the best paid wage earning jobs (aside from celebrities or sport stars or people who own their own business or star sales people) are usually those that pay you for what's in your noggin...and of course you have to communicate that well to others.