Private to state school at secondary

[schoolqu]

I have two DSes, Ds1 is 8 and in y4, ds2 is 5 and in y1.

now that ds1 is in y4, I am starting to think about senior schools. It seems early, but could potentially involve a house move. the thing is, I am more and more wondering whether I should abandon the whole private school idea for secondary. We can just about afford the fees, but I don't know if private education has been worth it so far. The boys are happy enough, and there is nothing wrong with the school, but it is not a perfect fit. They make little effort to extend ds1 in maths, for example, even though he has scored at the ceiling of all cat assessments etc, and is bored in lessons. And the fees really are a struggle. We manage but are always down to our last penny at the end of the month. I am not materialistic, and don't miss expensive holidays. But I do miss having peace of mind.

Our financial situation is likely to improve enough to afford private day senior school, just about. But I don't know if it is worth it. The options are (1) a superselective grammar that ds1 would have a good chance of getting into. But obviously this is definitely not guaranteed! (2) the local comprehensive, which does not have a great reputation. However the local school has had improved gcse results (gone from 40 to 65% 5 a-c) and gives a good impression on its website. From the private school perspective, there are two good day schools, either of which would suit my DS.

My head says 'forget private school' but I am worried about doing the wrong thing for my DSes, and I would love to hear about other families who have made the transition from private to state at this stage.

I am a regular poster, who has name changed for privacy reasons.

It really is a case of what would suit your ds and your family.
If you are struggling with the fees, remember that your school may have assistance available especially if both ds are at the same school.
Don't forget that he can sit the grammar school exams and you can fill in the application for state secondary before he would sit 11+ for independent schools, so its possible to keep all your options open if you don't mind the paying registration fees.
One of ds friends transferred from private to state and has struggled a lot. But again, that totally depends on child, the school they are transferring to and loads of other factors. Ds friend has struggled with the large class sizes, the huge amount of children and that they all seem very worldly wise (he made me laugh because he was totally shocked by older kids kissing in tge corridors) only you know your ds for this sort of thing. Has he been in private since reception? If so and you believe he will be going back into state, then give him lots of opportunity to meet local youngsters before the transfer age, perhaps through cubs/scouts or similar.

Yup. You can keep your options open - put him in for the 11+, apply for both that and the other state school; also apply/do the exams for the privates.

But before that, go to all the open days and go round the schools in the day time to see what they're really like.

DCs comp has a steady stream of kids coming in from the private schools - around 15 of them in DDs year and around 20 in DSs
they slot right in to the correct set for them
its a pretty leafy comp so they all have the same hobbies after all

it really, really comes down to the individual school and your kids

Thank you all. I am not sure how DS1 would adapt. He is a little quirky/geeky, and very academic. I worry about him being bullied. But as I know from personal experience, bullying is not particularly a state school problem. The comp is not particularly leafy, but not really rough either. It is good to hear that some private school pupils manage well (thanks TalkinPeace!), but also good to be realistic about the possible challenge ahead.

I will certainly not cut off any options in year 6 and I will keep an open mind about both state and private options. Fortunately DS loves exams especially reasoning type tests and maths, so he will not mind doing 3/4 sets of papers. I don't mind paying the registration.

At the moment, the grammar seems the best option. Lots of colleagues' children go there (I work at a university), and most are very happy. But he may not get in, and I don't want to get completely caught up in the process, 11plusforum style.

It is a good idea to get him mixing with local kids. He does go to cubs, but it is mainly populated by prep school boys! I will look for a holiday play scheme for him nearer the comp he would go to. His current one is in 'catchment' for a different school.

I'm in a similar position to you except my Ds1 is in year 6 and has just taken his 11+. We are really hoping he's got into our local partially selective state secondary (find out in March).

I've been very happy with our prep school (I have three children there) but I just don't feel that paying necessarily makes a school inherently better. We took ds to visit the partially selective school, our local comp, and our nearest private secondary, and he honestly preferred the first. He's now old enough to be able to see past the stuff that doesn't matter. One of the things that swayed him was the fact that in our area all of the private schools are single sex, and he genuinely enjoys being with both boys and girls (current prep is co-ed).

Don't worry too much about the 11+ stuff; ds got himself into a decent routine with it and it really wasn't too bad (DH and I home tutored). It helped that he had seen the school and really liked it, so he had something to aim for.

Go and see the schools, see what you think. I do understand the fear of making a mistake, but you shouldn't let that paralyze you from making a decision.

I will be in this same position in a few years' time. I've paid for the private primary education and am hoping for successful 11 plus results. I'm going to bite the bullet in YR 5 and get a tutor for the 11 plus for one session a week. If they don't pass after that , then I will consider my options. Private school fees at secondary are extortionate, so am hoping that they do pass.

It is really good to hear from people in the same position as me. There seem to be plenty of people going from private to state in year 7, but the other way round is less common (or perhaps less talked about). I think it is an especially difficult decision if you are on the cusp of being able to pay the fees. I am pretty sure we would not qualify for a bursary, which is completely fair enough.

gucci: I wouldn't mind getting a tutor, but logistically it will be difficult so I will see how we get on with diy first. I have been working with DS1 on his spelling and handwriting for 20 minutes a day, and he seems to respond okay to this.

shred (great name btw!): Yes - I think I should take DS1 round the schools. I will certainly take his opinion into account. I am not unhappy with the prep school. But like you, I don't think that money can necessarily buy a better education - especially if your DC is not sporty, so doesn't benefit from the acres of playing fields etc.

The problem is many state schools are in an appalling state, we pulled our two out 3 years ago at 11 and 13 and sent them private, its the best thing we ever did.
You may be lucky and live near a good state school but they appear to be in the minority, its sad but true
Its crippled us financially but if I had to do it again knowing what I know now I would sell the house and live in a caravan so I could sent them, education is so important

Grammar school sounds like a good option to start with, you can always re-evaluate if he doesn't get a place - that's what I would probably do in your shoes...

We are in a similar-ish boat, DD1 was in state primary until Y4, when we moved her and the options for secondary are to stay on at her new school (which she loves), or go for the comprehensive catholic secondary. The catholic secondary is very good academically, think 90% A-C and 15 going to Oxbridge every year.

However, it will be a lot down to the individual child. I have learned that all the best schools in the world might not necessarily be a good fit for that particular child and so you need to keep an open mind.

The state primary was fine for the other children for example, but DD1 loathed it with a passion and every year she became more unhappy/disengaged/depressed. On paper it was/is Ofsted outstanding but it wasn't a good match for her for zillions of reasons.

When I went round the state primary for the first time, my gut feeling was that DD1 would suffocate there, but the other children would be very happy in that environment.

I would never have thought I would be so right many years down the line - so always trust your gut instinct.

it all depends what your local schools are like. not all state schools are bad, not all private schools are good.

we went private for junior with the intention of getting into the grammar. we were going state for secondary either way - if they passed the 11+ then superselective grammar; if they didn't pass then i wasn't throwing good money after bad in the private system.

have faith. you have given them a good headstart and parental support counts for a lot. if they have the braincells then gcse aren't that difficult.

you can always tutor them through gcse and reconsider private at 6th form if you want.

we did private to state and it worked for us. we had a bit of a struggle at first because the private school didn't do SATS so secondary didn't know which sets to put DC in - had to get my sharp elbows out but it all came good.

and Grammar schools are only an option in pockets of the country
they are not an option I'd like to be faced with

OP
state to private - yup also well known round here - 2/30 of each of DCs primary classes went to the private schools
and one of the private schools is chock full of kids who went to state primary
because it comes down to individual schools
it is NOT possible to generalise

My DD ended up going to a GS and 'quirky, geeky and academic' forms a significant proportion of the cohort - moreso than at any of the private schools hereabouts. She actually did the 11+ more as a warm-up for the other entrance exams but having passed we went for a schoolday visit and she knew it was perfect for her.

Not having to pay school fees frees up money for other things - we can afford the extra-curricular activities she loves whereas although private schools usually have better extra-curricular and sports than state, they wouldn't be the best fit for her. If you don't have enough money for both, a state school may allow for better tailoring for individual interests.

The other factor I'll throw in is to consider what subjects they do at GCSE and A level. Get the exam results broken down by subject to see if there are particular strengths and weaknesses and how those play against your DCs needs.

"quirky geeky academic" is pretty much a GS child!

quirky geeky academic
also is a reasonable description of the top 60 in any half decent comp
certainly DCs school

the computing club, trombone trio, wind band, Latin trip brigade that DD hangs around with are

DSs friends include the rugby team so are less quirky, more bruised

"quirky geeky academic" is pretty much a GS child
According to my DD there are geeks, wanna-be geeks and Directioners at hers (all girls)

And yes, there will be a good number in any comp too - at our local one I'd guess more than at the 'sporty' private, which was more what I was thinking of.

i have re-read my post and realise it's not clear. DC are top percentage but didn't get into the superselective so they went to the comp. it was probably for the best. they are clever but not "quirky gekky academic".

comps are OK if they do setting.

There's lots of good state schools and lots of bad private schools, so it's down to the schools isn't it? Get to know the state school as well as you can. Talk to parents whose kids are there and kids. Check their website for events you might be able to go to. Find out if you like it basically.

DD1's quirky, academic and very geeky DF goes to the boys grammar and is very happy there ( he'd find her comp hard going. Although they do have the odd boy like him in too set science.)

DD1 muddles along at the comp. in DD1's indomitable style (she's a quirky, socially awkward and very bright dyslexic.)

Had we been able to afford it (and the extra for learning support) she might have flourished at a private school or she might have been bullied into leaving. Small year groups are a very too edged sword.

DD2 would undoubtably get better grades if she had wanted to try for the grammar (she refused), but she wants to teach not go to Oxbridge or study medicine. So I'm not at all convinced that very long days, bus fares, being still tied to taking collecting her from the bus and huge amounts of HW would have been worth it.

She ought to walk straight A's and perhaps a B for French, at the comp.

DFs have DDs at private school and honestly I think they would have done just as well at their local, non grammar area, true comp and had savings for university.

This is all really helpful. On paper, the grammar would be the best fit because it is very very good for maths and not too sporty. I know boys who go there, and DS would fit in well socially. But as you say, I should look at the schools and have a plan b in case he doesn't get in (100 out of about 400 pass). In particular, I have no personal experience of state education, and I do not want to discount the local school on the basis of its slightly dodgy reputation and my own preconceptions/prejudices. I need to look at the schools individually. For example, the local comp offers triple science at gcse, whereas the senior department of ds1's current private school does not. This is one reason why the senior department of his current school is not on our list, even though it is one of the few to offer academic scholarships with actual monetary value (50% fees).

Sounds similar to our partially selective school, ds1 is geeky too and was hugely impressed by the spanking shiny new maths block. The local private school has just spent £11 million on new sports facilities, which is fabulous if that's your thing, but ds 1 is frankly horrified at the prospect of having to play rugby twice a week - bad enough once a week at his current school. He loves swimming, but has just joined the local triathlon club which trains at the New private school pool anyway!

It's easy though to get carried away with an idea of a school without seeing it, so please do visit the possibilities asap, especially if you are thinking of moving house. You might look round one of the possibilities and hate it. I was praying ds1 would like the partially selective school but I did worry about influencing him (either from a financial point of view or by stressing him about the 11+). Luckily he liked it and really wanted to put the work in to get there.

We are currently paying three sets of school fees, and I must admit I'm looking forward to going down to two, then one. My two nephews (now in their 20s) have now graduated from university and it's been a struggle for their family to support them financially, so I'm very aware that might be something we have to consider in the future.

Good luck to you all, feel free to pm if you have any questions.

schoolqu
I went private right through - naice small selective gels schools in London.
sending my kids to a humungous co ed comp was quite a leap from that
BUT
I do not regret it for an instant

how you bring them up at home will impact massively on the sort of friends they have
the parents of many of DCs friends are academics and lawyers and medics and stuff - folks like DH and I actually

the choices they make at school will be based on the 5/6 of waking hours they spend not at school
music / sport / sciences / arts / technical / tractor driving

but, as with any school it comes down to

• do you have the luxury of a choice (many families do not)
• how do you "feel" when you go to visit or drive past

we've just had it with choosing 6th form college
one option just 'feels' odd
the other 'felt' like home the minute we went to the open day - and the offer arrived in my in box today!

'less quirky, more bruised' just made me snort -- but I'd second (third?) the fact that decent state comps often have a large cohort of geeky individuals. At ours, it's the physics club, film-making set and ukulele band.

Having said that, we moved ours from an apparently much naicer leafier comp that looked just the sort to appeal to ex-private-school types (blazer, strict uniform rules, small school) because oddballs were not welcome there, so you do need to look at the actual school and its fit to your child rather than assume anything.

That's assuming you can line up a house and good catchment school at all...

Thanks again everybody for your sympathetic and helpful replies, and for sharing your experiences. I was worried I'd get flamed for this.

We are very very lucky to have some choice, and have the possibility of paying for private education, but I am weighing up (a) whether it is worth the strain and stress on the whole family to pay the fees. It has meant that DH and I have had to take on extra work, on top of full time jobs. I am usually working some of the night on consultancy, after a full day of work. The boys are starting to be aware of the financial stress, no matter how much we try to shield them. DS1 tries to give me his tooth fairy money . So I have to take that into account. (b) what sort of school is the best fit for my DSes. I am concentrating on DS1 at the moment because DS2 is so young. I have a feeling that the order would be grammar, private, comp, but I need to challenge myself on this, and perhaps look beyond the local comp, with a view to moving.

I should go and look at schools, properly, I know, but I do feel a bit sick at the thought of DS going to the local comp . I keep telling myself that the quirky, clever boys, with average income parents must go somewhere to school (thanks talkinpeace). The vast majority of children at the local school are not in catchment for the grammar.

Lancelottie - DS1 is only in y4, so we could theoretically move in time for secondary school applications. This is one of the reasons I am starting to think of it now.

My Dc's went from a small local private (and relatively cheap) private primary to a large state mixed comprehensive BUT we did move 10 miles to get into this school because it did have a good reputation. (and it would have been a huge financial stretch for us to carry on with private. It was a big decision though because DC1's friends carried on with private education.

It was the best thing we ever ever did. Wise words from talkinpeace. It's how you bring them up at home that matters and both my DCs got into good friendship groups and both left with actually better Alevels than those they kept in touch with from the private school.

I do not live in catchment - my local school is a dump - and there are kids at DCs school I'm awfully glad they have nothing to do with
but that was the same at my private school ...

have a look at the website for the comp and see what trips and outings they have on their school calendar, what are the lunch and after school clubs etc

remember, 93% of kids are at state school .... many of them ever so ever so MC and 'like us' ...there will always be a few scumbags but there will also be some that are nice - the bigger the school the better the chances

if the comp got over 33% in the EBACC its doing something right with a lot of its kids