School withholding my parental rights to make decisions

[ScarletFair]

I am the non-resident parent (following acrimonious divorce) and natural mother of my 8 year old daughter.

We have a shared care order and there is no prohibited steps order or specific issue order.

For nearly 2 years I have been asking the school to seek permission from me as well as her father for extra curricular activities yet have been ignored and fobbed off and have not been able to express my wishes on any of these activities.

They have allowed the father to make unilateral decisions despite my repeated requests to be included in the decision making process.

They have also ignored my requests to be informed when my daughter is ill at school.

Can the school legally do this?

In doing so are they negligent in their care to both me and/or my daughter?

I desperately need advice as I feel like a second class citizen in the school's eyes.

Are you seriously suggesting that the school should not allow her to do extra curricular activities without consent form both of you? Are we talking about Art Club, netball etc? What do you think the school should do if consent from only one of you is received? Pay someone to chase it up, or refuse to let your DD take part?
As for informing you when your daughter is ill at school, would you be the one picking her up in the middle of the day? Would that contravene any order?
You can ask for a copy of her report, to be sent on a regular basis, and most schools would see both of you at parents consultation, separately if required. You should also be able to contact the school as necessary or appropriate if you want to discuss particular issues affecting your DD, and most schools would facilitate this.
I'm wondering if you are saying you want more contact with your DD? How often are you able to see her?
I'd recommend speaking to the teacher direct - they may not necessarily be in possession of info given to the school office in previous school years.
But I'm wondering if there is more to this.

If you have a shared care order then you are entitled to know all about your daughters health problem until she us deemed to be Gillick competent and can decide for herself who knows. I can't comment on the education side but I suspect it's just boring for the school to inform both of you of any health issues and also it's standard practice to only inform one parent even if they are divorced. At my schools if both parents wish to be informed of any health related issues then it's clearly recorded on their contact information and we have to abide by this even if one parent says they don't want the other informed.

Schools phone the parents when a child is ill so that the child can be taken home, not so that the parent knows they are ill. If your daughter is sick when at home with her father does he phone you straight away to let you know?

Is there a specific problem WRT the extra-curricular activities or is it just about establishing your status as equal parent? AFAIK school only have to have one parental consent (from a parent with PR) so they can legally accept only her father's permission.

I'm not sure about the illness information, though. Certainly they should provide you both with attendance information.

I don't think it is fair for the school to have to chase both of you for consent forms. If you want more inclusion it is something you need to bring up with your ex, not the school.

If a child is sick, we call the contact name on their form for pick-up. If that doesn't answer, we go to the second, and so on. We don't call every contact and say that the child is going home. Where required we do keep track of which day they are with which parent and will call the appropriate parent on those days. We will send two copies of newsletters/notices/photos, two copies of reports and have two parent-teacher interviews if necessary. We send out one permission form to the primary contact who has parental responsibility. We would not send two forms. What happens if one parent says no and the other says yes?

Parents need to liaise with each other, or take it to court if they can't agree. Schools are not mediation, we are there to educate the child, not play counselor between two parents who can't talk to each other. If there is any questions or arguments, we will only abide by what is written in a court document, and don't get involved in he said/she said disputes.

The specific issue is that my DD has been constantly unwell and over tired over the last few months and I feel that she is being signed up to too many after school activities (up to 4 a week) that extend the school day still further and that this is exacerbating the problem.

My concern is simply that of a mother for her daughter's wellbeing.

Sadly my ex has flatly refused to discuss these matters with me despite swearing to the judge that he would and repeated pleas from me.

How old is your DD and is she happy to do these activities?

After school activity slips are normally different to permission slips in the sense that all kids bring them home, then it's first come first served when handing them in with a signature (generally speaking).

Are you suggesting that when the form is filled in requesting a place in the activity club, the school should check with you that it's ok?

If so, that's very unreasonable. As a PP said, schools are not mediators between ex's.

To repeat my answer from legal (wouldn't normally bother but there are a lot of posts getting it wrong on this thread, including clear evidence from MidniteScribbler that her school may be acting in breach of DfE guideance)...

Current guidance from the DfE is that head teachers should seek consent from the parent with residence for outings and activities unless the decision is likely to have a significant long-term impact on the child or the non-resident parent has requested that they be asked for consent. As you have indeed asked they should be checking with you. They are not directly breaking the law if they ignore you but if your daughter is injured, for example, they may be liable on the ground that parental consent was not given for the activity.

The guidance also says that schools must treat all parents equally unless there is a court order limiting your PR.

The guidance can be found here. I suggest you point this out to the head. If that fails to produce any change you should refer the matter to the governors.

If your ex is breaking any orders then seek legal advice. Otherwise, you are being unreasonable to expect school to call you when she is ill. Which priority are you on the emergency contact details?

The sad face was because it sounds as though your dd is caught between two parents who can't get along despite having shared care btw.

We're not in the UK prh47bridge, so your DfE guidelines do not apply to us. I'm just pointing out what our school does.

We will only follow court orders, not a parent picking up the phone and whinging to us because their ex won't do what they want. If for some reason a court ordered that both parents had to agree to an activity for her to attend, then we would follow that. But in the absence of a court ordering such a thing, we will go with the primary parental responsibility.

Interesting thread.

MidniteScribbler - in the UK even after divorce both parents can have parental responsibility. Although the child may stay with one parent over night more often and so be the primary carer that does not impact parental responsibility. But a UK school will usually only require 1 parent to sign authorisation for things like after school clubs. That seems fair enough.

I can sympathise with Op though - some children cant cope with daily extra-curricula activities. What does your DD think? My 8 year old has (very) strong opinions about what he wants to do for extra-c.

If ex wont listen or mediate then you may need to go to court :(

"I think the school have enough to do without making additional phone calls"
As I said it's boring to ring two parents and IME not common practice but if the OP has joint parental responsibility and she has requested to be told every time her daughter is unwell then the school must tell her.
The school is not mediating when it does this, the OP has a right to know, no mediation involved just the simple passing of information, the person informing the OP does not need to comment on the cause of the illness i.e. too many after school, clubs just the fact that she's been sent home unwell.
It is for the courts/mediation service to address, seek advise and mediate over the problems of poor communication between parents over this issue and if the extra activities are making her unwell.

Sorry things aren't going well for you post divorce, OP. I'd take bridges advice. On top of that, since your ex is breaking a court order I'd make an application to the judge to iron this stuff out. If he keeps mucking about and ignoring orders a judge may well sanction him further.

I have joint PR for my son with my parents So there are 3 people who can sign consent forms (DSs Dad also has some PR but it's limited so not much help to you)

DSs headmistress says she only needs consent from one person and that she will not check with the rest of us if she has a signed consent form as she expects us to discuss decisions, however if one of us was to refuse consent then we are welcome to write to her saying that and she would arrange a meting to discuss where to go from there, otherwise she will assume we have all given consent, she did say she could make it so she needed 3 signatures every time but that in that case for 1st come 1st served things that would mean DS would need all 3 signatures before he got a place so we agreed to leave it as is because otherwise he'd miss out on things when he doesn't need to. She has said she wants all of us to agree for the Kent test (11+) and the G&T thing he's on though as they are significant long term effects on his education.

When DS is sent home sick school will call my Dad first as he'd usually pick DS up, they only call me if they can't get hold of him and my mum if they can't get hold of me.

Reports are posted to all of us, newsletters are sent by parentmail now so we all receive them, before that they were sent home via DS and it was up to us to make sure everyone got a copy.

My advice is try writing to the head mistress informing her that any consent for your daughter must come from both parents and that you expect to be informed if your daughter is sent home for any reason, photo copy it, attach a copy of the guidelines bridge linked and send it recorded delivery, hopefully the head will be less likely to fob you off after that, if that fails send it to the governors.

Doing this may mean your daughter misses out on some things though so I would only do this if there is no way you can get the father to consult you and there are activities you want to stop her doing.

These days I don't think it's open to a school to say it's too much trouble to keep a non-resident parent informed, because it's so easy and quick to send an email.

Can you talk to the class teacher about your daughter's health and whether she's doing too many after school activities?

Both parents will have Parental Responsibility this means the equal responsibility to make long term deicions for the child (I always say to people this means any decision that lasts longer than a day such as residence, name change and even a hair cut) any parent with PR is entitled to all educational and medical information. The providers (School/GP) have to inform you and if either parent has any information about these things they are legally required to share that infomration with the other parent (although many wont say about a common cold for example as it is such a small thing).

Residence is the responsibility to make the day to day decisions for the child (anything that lasts a day or less, what they will eat for breakfast, if they will go to Jack's house for tea). When making these decisions the resident parent does not need to inform the non-resident parent of what is happening.

However, if you have shared care then I believe what you are referring to is a joint residency order which means you are both supposed to liase on the day to day things within reason and come to a joint decion.

The school needs to respect your right as a parent with PR to be informed if the child is ill, you do not need a court order for that and as prh47bridge said above if you insist on it the school HAVE to ring you when she is ill or they are not carrying out their obligations. The after school clubs are a bit harder, if they take place on days when your DD is resident with F then it is his responsibility to ensure they are the right thing for her, but if they take place on your days you are within your rights to remove her from them if that is what you want to do. Where it becomes easier is if you feel they are effecting her health then that is longer than a day and your PR kicks back in and you are then entitled to at least meet with the school to discuss it as an issue. If you are not happy with the responses you can return the matter to court but you should get some medical advice as to if this is or is likely to be the cause of her illness.

I hope that wasn't too much of a law answer and it made sense!

Explain to me why this should be trated any different from any other family situation?

A school does not get permission for activities from both parents or ring both parents when a child is sick. It is the responsibility of the parents to communicate to each other about these things.

The same goes with divorced parents. It is their responsibility to communicate to each other about these things.

It is not the schools responsibilty to be the go between. If you are not happy with the communication with your ex, then you need to seek appropriate legal support to make sure it happens.

It is not the responsibility of the school. End of...

It IS the responsibility of the school. Read the DfE guidance to which I have linked above.

But, parental responsibility is just that. Parents are responsible to communicate with each other.

So, are schools in jeapordy if a child gets hurt and only one of the parents (when living together) gave permission and they didn't tell the other parent?

What gets me is when people don't want to communicate with who they should communicate with, they make others responsible.

MM5 it's not being treated any differently. Technically when it come to health (the only thing I can comment on) parents who are happily living together have a right to know about any issues but in practice it usually not done.
We follow the following procedure. When a child who is unwell and we have to inform the parents and if a child is either not Gillick competent or if they are has given consent for us to inform their parents in most cases where parents are separated and have PR then my schools usually only contacts 1 parent: the one listed as the first contact, although it is likely that the other parents details are also available. If we are unsuccessful with the first contact we then move onto the next one and then we usually have a third name as well. But this is what we do with all children regardless of their home situations. Occasionally and usually in the case of parents who are separated, although there is no reason why this could not occur in parents who are happily living together, the contact details state that both patent have to be informed of any health issues then we will contact both parents.
Obviously this is slightly more tedious than informing just one parent but we have to uphold the legal rights of both parents so just do it! On rare occasions one parent will say they don't want the other to know when this occurs we just politely explain that as both have PR and the other has requested to know immediately then the we are duty bound to inform them. End of story.

So, are schools in jeapordy if a child gets hurt and only one of the parents (when living together) gave permission and they didn't tell the other parent

If the parents are living together it is assumed they are communicating UNLESS one of them specifically tells the school that their permission must be sought separately. Once parents separate the school can no longer assume they are communicating. In that case permission must be sought from the non-resident parent for any activity that is likely to have a significant long-term impact on the child. If the non-resident parent requests that they be asked for consent their consent must be sought for ALL activities for which parental consent is required. If the school fails to do so they are allowing the child to take part in the activity without the appropriate parental consent and may therefore be liable if anything goes wrong.

I agree this would not be a problem if separated parents communicated and sorted things out between them. Unfortunately in far too many cases they are unable to communicate and the parent with residence starts using the children as a weapon to beat up their ex. Even where this isn't happening many parents seem to think the non-resident parent's views don't count. If the non-resident parent has PR they have the right to be consulted and the courts have been clear that official bodies (including schools) must respect that right and must not accept a decision from one parent where the other has a right to be involved.

Ok, I get it and I am not trying to argue.

I am just frustrated with people who fail to do their job. So, in turn forces the education system to take on another responsibility.

This is something bigger than what the OP is asking and with this comment, I will back out of this thread.

So, my advice to the op...

Stop for one moment and think about the bigger issue and take steps to fix the bigger issue instead of blaming the education system.

Peace out.