As much info, experience and advice as possible please RE:steiner education.

[BeWorthy]

OK. Where do I start?

My son has always been quit ill so we put him on a very different diet where he only eats all organic, no dairy etc, no sugar etc. So his body stays as healthy as possible.

He is one of the youngest of the academic year as he was four in August. So putting him into school in September just gone was a big concern for me, maybe I'm an over protective parent (but is there such thing?) But I hated the whole idea. Admissions, school uniforms, everything. He started in September as one of the youngest and he has stuggled, and so have I. He has struggled to settle in and go into school willingly, he has struggled to sit at a table all day, he has struggled to eat a very different lunch to his classmates. I have struggled with wanting to talk to a teacher who spends more time with my child than I do but her never having the time as she has 30 four year olds. But what really irritated me recently was when I was doing homework with my son ( he has LOTS of homework, at 4, reading diaries, homework diaries, targets, etc) and he has always been left handed, but on this evening of homework after the teacher mentioning to me about his current inability to hold a pencil properly I noticed him trying to write with his Right hand. I asked him why and he said because maybe it would be easier to grip, and all of his friends do it that way. This broke my heart - I want my son to feel he can be whoever he is and not have to change that to meet expectations of society at aged FOUR.

I don't want my son to feel pressured academically, or left our because his food is not processed and bad for him.

So - my partner mentioned steiner to me. I looked into steiner schools and I had a visit on Friday. I was blown away, almost emotional at how perfect it is for us, how we parent, and for my son.

He's next in line for admissions. However, since my visit I've started to do more research and I am only seeing very conflicted views on the steiner education. I am at a loss on a decision. We are not wealthy, or even middle class. We get by. & by sending him to steiner school we'd be scraping the coins together - but I feel for an education whuch is relaxed, non-pressured, and with outstanding end results that it would be worth it. But I need to be sure, 100 percent sure almost.

So I'm looking for your views, experiences, advice so I can have as much information as possible to base my decision upon. This is a very big decision for me, this is my sons future and well-being. I know there are bad experiences, but 95% of the people I know had bad experiences with state funded schools included myself! So how can it be worse than that? The whole 'processed pea' tarred with the same brush state education system.

All views welcome

Because I hate seeing state schools misrepresented. You have a perfect right, obviously, to send your child to any sort of school you like, although I do think that you have a slightly rosy view of Steiner (not your fault, by the way, their marketing is utterly fantastic!) but there is no reason to be justify that decision by making unpleasant generalizations about state primary schools and the children who emerge from them.

If you read all of my posts it will be obvious i do not have a rosy view of steiner - i have said i will not be sending my son there.

I am from a state school? I am saying this is the governments mission, not the childrens or even the teachers of schools. I am talking about the overall system and i wanted something a bit different, smaller, nicer a bit more relaxed - I didn't know too much about stiener, and now I've got a little more information I have decided he will be staying in state and i will re-evaluate when he is due for secondary ed.

good because what I have heard about Steiner is just nasty - (quite apart from the question of how can it be creative for a class to sit there all copying from the board or painting the same picture in the same prescribed colours) - for example a class teacher more or less encouraging bullying, or certainly turning a blind eye to it. as they believe the child is being punished for sins in a past life. this crap has no place in our childrens schools.

I think that secular primary state education is delivered - at the class teacher level - by people who in the main care an extraordinary amount about the individual development of the children. In most communities there will also be a diversity in terms of the children in each class. Cultural. Racial. Social Class. Whatever. It means that there can't be a sort of inflexible, 'This is what is done/what's right/who we are' approach.

By contrast I'd say that it is the 'free' and 'alternative schools' where ideology is paramount, and there will be some kind of dominant social group. And Heaven help the child - and/or its parents - who doesn't/don't fit in with the prevailing ideology

burberee it is interesting that this is what you have "heard" about Steiner, rather than what you have "experienced".

My own experience of Steiner is nothing like you are portraying. Whilst Steiner may have had some views which I disagree with, Steiner Education uses his views on childhood education, not race, on which to form their pedagogy. If such racist views still persisted, I would not send my child there, and I'm sure that none of the different races who attend her school would be there either. Rather interestingly, despite living in an area with only a tiny percentage of ethnic minorities, the school has a disproportionately high percentage of non-whites.

I have also never seen anything wrong with the artwork - the children learn techniques and will be painting the same subject, rather like when I was at school and was taught various techniques. By upper school the children are able to put their art learnings into the creation of some very high quality and individual artwork.

The reason children copy from the board is because they are creating their own text books - not because individuality is being squashed. Even within these text books there will be variety in the artwork, colours and illustrations.

I get really annoyed, because invariably, on a Steiner thread, there will be a lot of nay-sayers who have no direct experience of Steiner education but are happy to slag it off based on what they have read on the internet, usually by the same people posting on as many websites as they can find. My brother was bullied at Catholic School - does he, or I, go around saying that all Catholic Schools turn a blind eye to bullying? Bullying goes on at all schools, but I see less of it at my daughter's school because it is small enough for the children to learn respect for each other and for their teachers.

And to paraphrase curlew "Because I hate seeing Steiner schools misrepresented. You have a perfect right, obviously, to send your child to any sort of school you like, although I do think that you have a slightly rosy view of State schools (not your fault, by the way, their marketing is utterly fantastic!) but there is no reason to justify that decision by making unpleasant generalizations about Steiner schools and the children who emerge from them."

I think all schools are different. I've heard parents who love steiner and there children are thriving in that environment and I've also met pupils of steiner who love it too. But you also hear the bad stories, like you do with state!

I went to a state school in one of the nicest areas in south gloucestershire, but was bullied awfully and made to sit in a room all day every day out of harms way as they could do nothing about the bullies.

I had to leave at 14 and obviously has had a huge impact on my life.

I also went to one of the worst schools in Barbados and there bullying policy was amazing and education to a much higher standard than it is here.

Everywhere is different I don't think people should be signing petitions and so on so that steiner schools aren't funded. Parents should be able to freely send their child to a school that suits them and their child. State funded steiner schools also seem to have a different ideolgy to many private ones and cater for all. - I'm a big believer in soul and re-incarnation but definatelly not in bullying through karma and so on.

And my son may not grow to be a big believer in the soul - so i think to wait until he is older is my best shout for now and just to give him a happy and balanced homelife and childhood as i can.

I lived in a Steiner community for several years - for reasons which are rather too complicated to explain.

I would never ever send my child to a Steiner school. I am committed to the kind of education which involves critical enquiry. Admittedly conventional education at the moment is mainly about passing exams. But it does not actively try to suppress critical thinking.

The Steiner educated children in my house used to come out with statements that were frankly stupid, but which echoed what they had been taught. 'Oh people were much healthier and lived much longer in Tudor times because they didn't have E-numbers in their food' was an example I particularly relished.

worldgonecrazy I was talking about the experience of a close friend's children, both of whom were horribly bullied at their lovely Steiner school while the teachers sat back and watched, and both of whom thrived in normal state ed. so not what 'I have read on the internet' no, although not quite personal experience it was v close.

I completely agree with worldgonecrazy. People here seem to be very hypocrytical when saying state schools have gerneralised but then they generalise steiner.. It is sad that people have had bad experiences with steiner. But there are many who have had awful experiences with state also. Like i said, it's all about finding the right school for you and your child. I think people should stop looking at what steiner said in the 1930's and believing that those words are 100% still obeyed and pracrticed by modern steiner schools. There were plenty of different races when i took a look at the one in Bristol, and if we are honest the majority of people were racist in the 30's unfortunately there was some difinate ignorance 'back in the day' I think the majority of our grand parents were probably racist! I know mine were. So what steiner said 70+ years ago, doesnt really matter - what matters is what moderin steiner education means now and i think the majority are well-meaning, safe, non-racist environments.

I am committed to the kind of education which involves critical enquiry.

As am I.

Which is why I dislike the State method of teaching children to pass exams, rather than to learn for the love of learning. Steiner education has churned out plenty of scientists, not a career path for anyone unable to critically assess information.

Well it would be interesting to have a few examples about Steiner educated scientists. I can see that some people may successfully transfer to sixth form colleges and so science A-levels. This is a very balanced article that weighs up the possible advantages - and also the limitations - of what a Steiner education might be. (My own concern is more really to do with State support for Steiner schools via the Free Schools programme.)

www.theguardian.com/education/2012/may/25/steiner-state-funded-free-schools

"Steiner education has churned out plenty of scientists,"

I wonder if you could name a few?

yes please do name some of these scientists that would be interesting

Steiner always brings out conflicting opinions on MN. I went to Steiner, came out with straight As and went on to Oxbridge. On the whole I think my education was OK, and I came out with a reasonably broad grounding in culture, science, maths and all the rest, and I definitely had a broader education than a lot of my peers from 'mainstream' schools.

Most people think Steiner education is a bit like Summerhill or those other 'progressive' institutions where children just do what they want and run wild express themselves. It isn't. I remember mostly whole-class teaching, not a huge amount of differentiation but on the upside a strong emphasis on the social ethos and community events and fantastic art, music, craft, creativity and a really healthy respect for a breadth of talents, not just academics.

Some of the Steiner credo is quite out there though, and hardline anthroposophists can be very weird and dogmatic about their weirdness to boot. I am pretty intolerant of woolly-headed 'woo' these days. Also, the quality depends massively on the school.

When people ask me about my education I usually say the best way to think about it is as a faith school. It's less well-understood than the idea of, say, Catholic or Muslim faith schools but Steiner has a definite belief system and it's core to how the school works. If you're a committed secularist you will probably find it's not for you. But if you're more interested in raising children who want to save the world than run the world, you can do a lot worse.

Where did you do your A levels, manatee?

At the Steiner school, curlew .

Really? My understanding was that in this country Steiner schools do not have 6th forms or equivalent.

Thanks for the reply BeWorthy. I forgot, DD also had quite drastic weight loss. We've never seen any private people, only NHS, we were sent to hospital by our GP the same day I took her in to see them which was a bit scary at the time!

The consultant said later that actually it could have been glandular fever with a false negative result. Apparently they're more common with children than adults.

I guess that's something else your son could have been suffering from too?

Just another thing to think about!

It is just awful when you don't know what's wrong isn't it? x

Some googleable ones:

David E. Blackmer - inventor of DBX system
Professor Thomas C. Sudhof: co-awardee of the 2013 Prize in Physiology or Medicine.
Peter Wurtenberger: Former CEO of Yahoo Germany (yes I know not strictly science but requires understanding of technology and people)
Kristen Nygaard: inventor of object-oriented programming language and winner of Turing Award
Ferdinand Porsche - designer/engineer of the car of the same name
Tim Pritlove - media and multiplatform developer
John Moore - worked on military electronics and spectroscopy/x-rays
Wolfram Achtnich - plant research scientist
Dr. Tankred Stobe - specialist in internal medicine. President of MSF for Germany.
Andreas Schleicher - statistician and researcher for OECD.

Plus, the science teacher at my daughter's school has a PhD in microbiology.

One ex alumni currently studying Physics at Durham University (ranked in top 4 Physics Unis in UK).

The physics tutor at the local vastly oversubscribed 6th form college welcomes students from my daughter's school and loves the fact that the students are enquiring, interested, able to learn on their own initiative and unafraid of a challenge.

..... and the current most famous astronaut in the world, Ms. Sandra Bullock

Worldgonecrazy- were any of them educated in a British Steiner school?

"But if you're more interested in raising children who want to save the world than run the world, you can do a lot worse." I love this comment Manatee.

I am definately interested in raising my child this way - But unfortunately can not find out if bristol stiener is 'one of the good ones'. I'm going to leave him where he is for now - and see how things go. I hope that his home environment will be enough for him to have a balanced view of the world and he becomes a balanced and happy individual.

Mishmashof styles I have sent you a private messege. Yes it is one of the worst parts when they are so regularly ill but no one knows why - you feel at a loss and as though you cannot help.

I hope my messege can help you and your daughter.

He's been ill with it now for 3 years. he also had weight loss and very pale skin - I almost forgot about those, the lifestyle change has definately been helping us. XxX

curlew can i ask why you are so dead against all british stiener schools? And have a general negative view of them all?

Mishmashofstyles - has your daughter ever had a High WBC when blood tests have been carried out. I would get her medical records, you have to pay for these but it's worth doing - you may be surprised that half of the stuff on there is never mentioned to the parent. X (Although i hope that's not the case for you!)

No idea. The Dr. teaching my daughter certainly was.

Some Steiner schools go all the way through, curlew . I don't particularly want to out myself by specifying which one but mine did and still does.

I should probably reiterate that I'm not particularly interested in being seen as an advocate of Steiner schools: my mother taught at one and was forever asking me if I'd mind speaking to prospective parents about how it was possible to go to Steiner and still go on to Oxbridge. I really resented this as I felt it was significantly due to my self-motivation and the support of a few key teachers, rather than the school culture as such, that I got in. But it's hard to say really. And the older I get, the less inclined I am to encourage the 'anti' position either. My experience of Steiner was not unmitigatedly brilliant, but the reasons for that were complicated and not by any means all the school's fault.

So my view of Steiner education is quite nuanced. I say if it works for your family, go for it. Certainly I think there's a case to be made for starting the reading/writing/academic stuff a bit later as quite a few 4-5 year olds seem to struggle with this (especially summer-borns and prems). The woo stuff I could definitely live without though, and I'd avoid the smaller schools.

Worldgonecrazy I googled. None of them went to a British Steiner school. Most were born in the 1930s,40s, when the academic world was very different. Are they your best examples of a Steiner schools "churning out scientists?"