Would you be happy if your child was taught Maths by someone with just 4 GCSEs?

[mrz]

www.jobsgopublic.com/jobs/unqualified-teacher-of-maths-x-2-n-a/from/nlfzn8ipznrms/2/of/110/opening_at/desc?utm_source=Indeed&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Indeed

Maybe they recruit ex-pupils of the school - that's why they only asked for 4 GCSEs not 5, because that's all they can get from the school.

If you compare school results in West Yorkshire (where the job ad is for ) and London there is a big difference. This may be part of the problem.

Well, you aren't going to entice well qualified maths teachers with good qualifications up to West Yorkshire if you are advertising for someone as cheap as possible.

Reminds me of the person I chatted with through an online dating thing YEARS ago who said he was a teacher of adult literacy. He couldn't spell to save his LIFE. I can't get my head round that.

I once worked in a vair expensive and posh school where the dinner ladies routinely had better qualifications than the teachers.

There is more to teaching than just knowing stuff. But to neither be a qualified teacher nor to have any proof of knowing a huge amount of maths, and with previous experience in a similar role only desirable, not essential (plus no attempt in the ad to explain WHAT the actual role is - teaching classes of 30, or 1-1 work, helping children working at all sorts of levels or groups working at a particular level...)... it's really not surprising that particular vacancy has been withdrawn!!! I think rather than "Together We Are Stronger" the ad should say, "Together We Have No Clue What We Are Doing."

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/10468036/Failing-school-advertises-for-maths-teachers-with-minimum-of-just-four-GCSEs.html

I'd be fine with the four GCSEs if they had then gone on to do a degree, had passed the professionals skills tests, done a PGCE and passed their induction. But then they'd be a qualified teacher...

So, no, wouldn't be happy with that at all.

From the Telegraph article: 'The advert should have made clear that this post was for the appointment of trainees ... with the potential opportunity to then progress as a trainee teacher.'

Who would seriously consider being trained as a teacher by an academy judged as inadequate? If you did have a Maths degree you'd get a £20,000 bursary to do a PGCE at a university and your options, and pay, would be so much better.

saragossa it's interesting that pupils from Yorkshire and the Humber get a bigger percentage of students into university and particularly the Russell Group than London or the south east. But it's true that all the schools in London with the same prior attainment get two or three times as many through 5 GCSEs in 2012 (South Leeds Academy got 15% inc Eng & Maths but ecl equivalents). They're not all academies though.

I don't understand why people are so insistent on teachers having a degree in their subject. A degree or equivalent in teaching strikes me a essential.......

Well I have only 4 O' levels (maths at B), 2 A levels (not maths), teaching degree (primary B.Ed) and an MA in maths education - but that is maths education pedagogy (the maths content was no higher than gcse). I worked successfully as a primary maths consultant for 10 years. I taught up to gcse (foundation tier) with great results for a year and presently am a specialist maths teacher in Y5 and Y6. I have had 5 formal lesson observations over the last year and 4 of them have been graded outstanding. And my highest maths (content) qualification is an O' level.

So you're not an unqualified teacher, then, are you, olivevoir58. And you have spent most of your career in PRIMARY teaching. I fail to see the relevance of your experience to an advert for an unqualified teacher, previous experience only desirable, in a school for 11-19 year olds. Would you have assumed from that advert that they were looking for someone as well qualified as you? And to be perfectly honest, whilst I would be incredibly delighted to have someone with your qualifications teaching my children at primary level, I would not be happy with you teaching my children GCSE maths - not when they are higher ability and I would be hoping the school would be going beyond the basic GCSE curriculum...

I agree, my subject knowledge is not good enough to teach beyond foundation tier gcse and I would never ever dream of doing so (though getting an A level in maths is on my list of things I would like to do and then it might be a different matter). My point is that only having basic qualifications is not necessarily an indicator of who would make a fine maths teacher with the right training and support. I'm sure the school would appoint wisely looking at the whole person and I'm damn sure they wouldn't be teaching beyond their subject knowledge or even teaching independently at all for a long time - ofsted would not be happy for one thing. BUT I find that sometimes the worst teachers of lower attaining students are the best mathematicians - as some of them just cannot see how kids can't get it, they move to abstract too quickly and leave many kids confused. Of course the opposite is also true and somebody who doesn't understand maths is hardly going to teach it well. But really, would a maths phobic or even your typical Joe Bloggs who claims they can't do maths be applying for this job. In one sense the job is self selecting.

I agree with a lot of what you say, but I REALLY don't think that a school in South Leeds Academy's current situation is in a position to give the right training and support. They are struggling already to meet Ofsted's demands, with too few good and well supported teachers, without adding to their training and support responsibilities. Also, given the situation they are in, it was staggeringly stupid of them to put such an advert in the public domain, with so much information missing from it. All in all, it does NOT inspire public confidence in leaders of schools to attract appropriate people. The advert just screams out to me, "you must be cheap and unqualified," and not much else. To my mind, an advert sending out that sort of message is relatively unlikely to attract the right people and will definitely attract quite a lot of wrong people desperate for a job.

The inspection report from June 2013 is even worse than 2012 when it was first judged inadequate because teaching has gone from satisfactory to inadequate, and according to the monitoring report 29 more teachers/staff have since left. It cannot have the capacity to train teachers - if it goes into special measures they would prevent it from taking even newly qualified teachers let alone unqualified ones.

I don't expect a teaching degree but I do expect a firm grasp of the subject. It was quite an unpleasant surprise to find out that teaching qualification allowed people to teach subjects in which they were not proficient.

I have 3 GCSE's
An HND and a BA (hons) with QTS

I taught for a 11 years and achieved excellent results at GSCE and A Level - so according to some views on this thread I shouldnt have been because when I was a silly 15/16 yr old I messed about and didnt do as well as what I should have done.

I am about to retrain to be a maths teacher as there are more opportunities to teach in this subject area.

You can have the most gifted matehmatical mind ever IQ etc but if you are a poor communicator and not very good with people then you wont be an effective classroom practitioner as someone who has a more balanced set of skills.

Surely many would agree the with teachers the proof is in the pudding reguardless of qualitifcations some may or may not have gained over 20 years ago. Teachers are hamered with termly assessment's - if managers are on ball. If little Joe is not on target they are straight there wanting to know why.

A

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/7433339.stm

''But the figures showed that only 47% of those teaching maths had a relevant degree, although 75% had a post A-level qualification of some sort.

One in four maths teachers did not hold any relevant post A-level qualifications, which include BEds, PGCEs and Certificates of Education.''

It's grim but there just aren't enough maths teachers.

Oh think I look ok then when you've put them stats up.

But the job that has now been withdrawn did not ask for ANY degree or ANY A levels
It would have settled for a C at GCSE
to teach kids who would theoretically be able to get the A*

TBH teaching skills are far more than subject knowledge
in a State Primary, the year 4 teachers covers everything
and how the subjects were defined when I did my degree have all changed
BUT
somebody who has not shown the aptitude to pass a post school qualification should not be teaching in a school
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