Would you be happy if your child was taught Maths by someone with just 4 GCSEs?

[mrz]

www.jobsgopublic.com/jobs/unqualified-teacher-of-maths-x-2-n-a/from/nlfzn8ipznrms/2/of/110/opening_at/desc?utm_source=Indeed&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=Indeed

There has been a real problem with recruitment of suitably qualified teachers in maths, science, languages, and a number of other subjects, for years. That is because teaching is really bloody hard, often unrewarding and Gove's measures are merely heaping shit on everyone. Teaching is not indentured labour and there are easier and far pleasanter ways of making a living than having chairs thrown at you by hostile and disturbed teenagers. Contrary to popular opinion, it's not a job people have to do because they have no choice- people are making that choice. As long as conditions carry on getting worse, people will carry on leaving and SMT will carry on struggling to recruit suitably qualified people. And still even on MN you'll get people bleating that if teaching is that bad, then why do people stay? The answer is they stay for as long as it takes for them to realise they really can't change it all single-handed, and then they leave.

It does not surprise me tbh.

And to answer the OP's question, no I would not be happy. I qualified as a teacher 13 years ago when my children were 9, 7 and 5 and through working in schools became aware that teaching outside your subject area or teaching whilst unsuitably qualified was becoming more widespread than I felt comfortable with in many state schools. I decided to work to pay school fees so that my children at least had a stab at achieving their full potential. It seemed to be a problem that would seriously adversely affect my children at the ages they were.

The only real solution is for involved parents to ask a lot of questions, to become governors wherever they can and to influence recruitment policy favourably in the direction of the children as much as possible. Otherwise it just becomes a balance sheet issue for governors who are often business people.

I taught maths for years with nothing more than a degree in Psychology (admittedly with a chunky stats component) and a post grad diploma in economics. I was bloody good at it (or at least OFSTED thought so) but I left because the chair throwing teenagers and the belief amongst a sub set of parents that parenting their teenager was somehow my job not theirs.

I think they took 6 months to replace me.

"Teaching is not indentured labour and there are easier and far pleasanter ways of making a living than having chairs thrown at you by hostile and disturbed teenagers."

Because this is, of course a perfect description of the average day in a state school.

curlew it may not be an average day in a state school, it certainly isn't in my current school. It IS a fairly regular occurrence in some schools. The first school I taught in I was there for 2 years and in that time I had a firework thrown at me, a table thrown at me, I was sworn at on a weekly (sometimes daily) basis, I had to lock my class in the classroom with me and phone the school office from my mobile because a parent arrived and was brandishing a knife at me from the corridor and a 15yr old boy threatened to rape me. Some schools are not pleasant places to be and if I hadn't managed to find a significantly nicer school I would most certainly have left teaching.

More and more pupils are being taught in all sorts of schools by teachers who are not suitably qualified. I have been asked to teach French or Science (I am a Maths teacher) because I have A-Levels in them so I must be reasonably decent, my A-Levels were 17 years ago now. Some of the newer ways of training to be teachers also mean that some pupils have an trainee teacher as their only Maths (or other subject) teacher for a full year with observations every few weeks as the only check up that the trainee is managing to do a semi-decent job of learning how to teach. We all need to learn but at least by doing a traditional PGCE you have the regular teacher with you for as long as you need it, and they are capable of stepping in and correcting you when things don't go as well as you hope.

"It IS a fairly regular occurrence in some schools"

Possibly in a tiny minority.

But it is the general Mumsnet perception of state schools, and I hate seeing prejudices reinforced.

curlew I taught for two years in a school where I had a very good teaching reputation. I nevertheless had to fill in major incident reports at least once a month, had chairs and large outdoor bins thrown at me for daring to question kids about why they were out of class during lesson time. We had phantom shitters in corridors, wanton destruction of bathrooms by gangs of kids, kids jumping out of 1st floor windows, to name but a few incidents. Throughout the school there was at least one pretty big incident every single day. This was a "bog standard comp" in a leafy suburb. The schools I was placed in during training were of a similar vein.

If people really want to know what experience their children are getting every day, try this: ask your children when they get home how many of their lessons were delivered by cover teachers, how many were disrupted either by major or by minor incidents. Keep a chart. You will be horrified how much of their education is disrupted day after day after day. A lesson delivered by a cover teacher cannot be counted as a lesson. They will have been set worksheets and merely babysat. I'd estimate that many state school pupils are losing a day a week to substandard (cover) lessons and disruption. That's 20% of their education, gone and never to come back.

I do question my kids duchesse, and I hear nothing that you report happening in their comprehensive. Someone set the fire alarm off last spring. That was pretty much it as far as incidents go. Maybe one lesson a fortnight is taught by a supply (permanent member of staff) at KS3. At KS4 one a month. I think most state schools actually do a pretty decent job to be honest.

The question could also be would you let your son be taught by a maths Phd.... Who has no understanding why your child can't comprehend the most basic of maths?

Having an Academic qualification does not automatically mean you can teach. I don't actually think a lot of teachers who have PGCE..can teach all that well either....

I do think experience and an understanding of the workings of a childs mind is more important....having a degree or not really cuts no ice with me...

I do think the question is some what loaded.

Apart apparently from the ones in leafy Surrey/Hampshire/Berkshire that I taught in...

Yes Kenlee there are plenty of very academic people who can't teach. There are a fair number of teachers with PGCEs who probably shouldn't be teaching either, I know of a couple at my current school and a few at other local schools.

I do know that you need to have a higher grade than a C at GCSE to be able to teach anything more than the basics at secondary school though. Over half of the year 8s in our school are working on grade C topics or above, and that goes up to about three quarters of our year 9s and almost all of our KS4 pupils. A further qualification in the subject you are teaching is important. Yes it helps to have an insight into what pupils struggle with, but that isn't much use if you're still struggling with the same things yourself, you need to have figured out strategies to solve the problems you were having and have a further understanding.

I don't care one fig whether they have no GCSEs providing they have a degree in the subject they are teaching.

THE worst school for "accidents and incidents" that DH has ever been to was a vaihy naice prep school in saith london where they had built on the playground so much to get more fee income that the kids were like battery hens at break

DS has a cover teacher at the moment - not really the main one's fault she's having chemo
otherwise not many cover teachers that I hear about

DembaBa I think you missed the point they don't need a degree or A levels they just need 4 GCSEs

"Stealing Cars, Throwing Chairs, Smoking Dope" Its a everyday thing "Yeah" in
a Ghetto Comprehensive. Nobody cares what happens to the kids who go to
the Ghetto Comprehensive. Sorry Could not resist it---

Its totally disgraceful to think some schools are encouraging people to apply without appropriate qualifications. You could in theory have a stupid situation where some six formers might have better qualifications than a teacher teaching them.

I found that advert incredible. And I'd never heard of that academy chain before (Schools Partnership Trust) but it's huge - 33 academies, 8 more in the pipeline and 4 free schools due.

So I googled it and the Yorkshire Post says its chief executive was paid over £160,000 last year. So now we know how! It was judged inadequate at its last Ofsted with only 42% making required progress in Maths in 2012.

so their plan for improvement is to employ someone with 4 GCSEs

I'd be unhappy if they hired someone with only 4 GCSEs as relevant qualifications, but hopefully the ad is only worded like that so as not to exclude people who qualified as teachers or gained maths qualifications overseas.
Or is it a myth that foreign-trained teachers can't work in English state schools without first taking GCSE English and Maths and then doing a PGCE?

If that's the best they could manage for Maths, what are their criteria for science, history or languages? The school got 15% through 5 GCSEs inc English and Maths - so English and Maths are probably the only GCSEs offered for most pupils. Pupils on average entered for 10 exams but only 3.7 GCSEs. They're poor and northern so Gove won't give a toss. He just keeps defending the use of unqualified teachers and pretending academies are the answer.

NotCitrus - it's an academy, they can hire unqualified teachers and pay their directors huge salaries because Gove says so.

offer.jobisjob.co.uk/west-yorkshire/school-partnership-trust-academies/unqualified-teacher-of-maths-x-2/job-offer-gdqc57mmcr7423dq5pr5efhk5e?cat=ED&pos=0

I've taught plenty of kids to get a C at GCSE maths. They are certainly not good enough at it that I would want them teaching maths to secondary school pupils.

To specifically want the teacher to be unqualified says it all, really - they want/need someone cheap, so the fewer qualifications, the better.

And I have to say, the Chief Executive needs to take a pay cut - that could then fund someone effective at teaching maths who deserves a decent pay rate.