Sick of the fuss.

[morethanpotatoprints]

Having a bit of a rant here but just feel like it.

I can't understand why there is such a fuss over what school people use for their dc.
Until recently people just took their lot as the way it was, but now we all want more and not only this but what we can't have.
If there are only a few thousand that can afford certain schools so be it.
If your dc can't go to grammar so what?
If your state school is rubbish it will get better as it will be in special measure.
If your dc aren't bright so what? If the school you would like is full so what?
There have always been situations in education that weren't perfect, or others could have and you couldn't.
Why does it matter?
Thank you.

I agree entirely OP.

I am a bit by the hysteria regarding schools and education on here. I read the threads on here and think am I a bad parent because I think that bright children with supportive parents will achieve whatever school they're in and if they're not pull them out and try somewhere or something else.

What always amazes me is the fuss that (some) parents make to get their child into a specific school and then do very little to support the school (or the child) once they get there. My DS has been to three separate primary schools, all reasonably good and many parents go to 'appeal' to get their child into these school - yet very, very few parents actively support the school once their child is there - it is almost a case of just assuming that it is now the school's responsibility. I have always been involved in my DC's education, doing whatever is required by the school whether it is reading, PTA, Governor etc etc. Yet a very close friend who won a place 'on appeal' which meant over 30 children in a class and no proper desk for at least two children was quite honest in the fact that she wasn't prepared to do anything to help at school - and no, she didn't have younger children, a job, elderly parents etc etc etc .

Study after study proves that what matters most is the parental influence and support at home, the best school in the world can't provide that.

Therobber

I don't mean this in a judgemental way because I have read that some parents move to be nearer a good school, but honestly I have never met any. It just seems an alien concept to me.

Ragwort
I think a lot of parents believe it is solely the responsibility of the school to make sure their dc receive an education and they play no part in supporting the school.

Talkinpeace, I said "all of my friends". What's wrong with it? I got five friends that came here frome the same country, two of them had also tried local "outstanding" primaries and thought that the level of education was unacceptable. For example in the country we are coming from there are no sets, all kids study the same things, there are text books from the year one and homework is given every day. the prep schools in our area are following the same system, so we all agree that this is more in line with what we expect from schools.

Can I ask....how do you 'plan' to send you DC to the local grammar??? Are you making a huge assumption that they will pass? And if not, do you just look for a private school?

I agree that there were less options, but I think that parents were just as concerned and determined to make the best of what was on offer. I think that it is great that people 'fuss'- it is only by everyone 'fussing' that you get improvement. If people just accept the status quo you get ignored.

I had spent 2 years on doing vr/nvr with him at home, he went to a prep and also had a tutor for the whole year 5. We are also in the catchment so he needed to achieve a minimum score anyway. He is very average, but managed to actually score almost full marks in the exam thanks to all the tutoring. He is in year 7 and his target for this year is 6 B for science and 6a for maths, so he is doing ok despite being tutored. All my friends are following a similar regime with their kids, can't imagine them not getting through.

That depresses me beyond belief, but thanks for answering.

Linsey
move to Hampshire.
No selective schools.
Same average results (higher actually)
Happier families with more spare cash for things that really matter

So OP this is why it matters.
My son is yr5 scoring at least 80-90% on NVR without any tutoring. He is pretty good at literacy but struggles with maths - he needs time to think about what he is being asked, to construct answers, think around them. I am fairly confident that a grammar school would not suit him.

Our local secondary is in special measures, with a current pass rate of 47% A-C's.

I already feel that the education system is failing him, we don't have the money to privately educate him (not sure I believe in private education anyway - would like everyone to have the same opportunity, what they make of it is up to them)

I am sorry that I am the sort of parent that irritates you so much.

I'd love to move! But DH got a good job in this area so don't have a choice really. :(

Plus3, DS used to struggle with maths too, that's why I took him to the tutor in year 5. He is absolutely fine withit now. Don't give up, just try to find the areas he is struggling with, he is just probably lacking confidence. Iwould also recommend to exclude all electronic games and limit the TV in year 5, you'll see the results immediately.

I think that bright children with supportive parents will achieve whatever school they're in and if they're not pull them out and try somewhere or something else.

There isnt a somewhere else for us. We have a choice of one unutterably crap school. We cant afford to move. We cant afford private education.

What is the something else? Home ed is not a genuine option for us.

Again, I say, mediocre would be a major improvement.

It is statistically proven that children will achieve more with outstanding teaching. That, OP, is why it is so important to try and find a school with as much good or outstanding teaching as possible. The value added tables explain clearly how children achieve above expectations at the schools that add value and achieve below expectations in ones that "add" no or minus value. They do not all achieve according to their abilities, some children are served very poorly, despite the efforts of their parents.

Why would the OPs children not be able to compete internationally?

I grew up in Ireland, one school in the locality. People in my class went on to be everything from street cleaners to international journalists for broadsheets to doctors, lawyers etc. The variety is breathtaking. I can assure you much of our teaching was anything but outstanding. In History class, the teacher had a student read text and then reread the same passage in monotone, indicating sentences to underline. She did this for five years

I have two first class honours degrees from RG Unis and a distinction in a postgraduate qualification. I am nowhere near done with learning, and imagine I will acquire more over the years.

It strikes me in the UK the discussion about education is about class, primarily.

I'm not sure this is a new thing, my parents moved from a county that didn't have grammar schools to Kent so we had the option of grammar and going back even further my grandmother got a job just to earn enough to send Mum and her sisters to private school because the local school's weren't good enough.

Plus3, if it helps at all, my parents never paid out for any tutoring or private education and their oldest 5 children passed the 11+, including my middle sister and I who are dyslexic (the other 2 are in year 5 so not taken it yet) all Mum did was offer a lot of support at home and work more on the bits we weren't confident in.

Im sorry but I can't stop laughing....

I was educated in state school up North. The school was not just crap it was worse than crap. My parents were the type if you finished cooking the orders. There wass plenty of time to do your homework and revise. Yes I was in the top stream and yes I did fall asleep in class. Did the teachers mind...not in the slightest if your asleep your not creating trouble.

So it is utter bollocks to say the school you go to helps in anyway shape or form for your child to get good grades. The school can only provide material and present it in a way that you can remember. The main criteria is for you to want to spend the time to learn.

Having great parents again BOLLOCKS.. Your parents can only give you support and encouragement to do well. Doing well is up to the individual.

You can send your child to the best private school. Get a tutor for every subject so they will succeed. They may even past all the exams. Yet if they can't be arsed they will get found out sooner or later and be collecting social security.

After saying that as a parent I will afford every oppurtunity for my child. It is still up to her if she wants to be successful or not. That Im afraid can not be taught...

So yes by all means fuss over your child...but dont expect because you have taken all this effort that it will pay off.. I have seen friends with premium educations fail because they dont have it in themselves to succed..

Education and a degree does not automatically mean you will be successful.

True Kenlee. You have to hope that if you strive to get the best education for your child they see the value of it and are willing to put in the work.

Kenlee..wasn't it you that in your words tiger trained your child from the age of three (to keep up) til boarding school 7,000 miles away? Clearly you thought that would make a difference? Why go to such lengths if you believe "so it is utter bollocks to say the school you go to helps shape or form your child to get good grades"...

i think it takes an extraordinary individual to transcend a bad school and bad teaching and unsupportive parenting. ...saying it is down to the individual and applying that to a child is disingenuous - if that child goes to a "crap" school and no or little parental support either....these weigh as heavy disadvantages compared to a child that has gone to a great school, with small class sizes, good pastoral care and parents that nurture their education at home. Is having the latter a guarantee of success educationally ...no...but it does stack the odds greatly in your favour.

Kenlee to pinch your own phrase, youre talikng bollocks.

You need to learn to see the world through other prisms than your own! I did this, I did that, I did the other. What about everyone else?

I too went to a crap school and went off to Oxbridge. Does that mean it was a good school? Does that mean anyone and everyone could succeed there, if only they wanted to?

Don't be ridiculous! I am not the only measure!

The reality for pupils in the UK is that where they go to school does matter. For the vast majority of them, it will impact upon their future. The odd unusual individual breaking out does not change this plain fact.

The three main factors affecting a child's outcome are parental education, cash and where they go to school. Yes there will be notable exceptions, but they do not disprove the rule.

In amongst the op, morethan said "if your dc arent bright, so what" which part prompted me to write about no hope of competeing internationally.

someone on another thread worrying because her local (non-selective) comp has a 5-GCSE pass rate of "only" 87%. She honestly doesn't know if it's good enough.
We have way too many threads like that on MN.

Yes. I think the op sort of meant to home in on points like that really perhaps.

I do think it's very stratified here though. I don't believe it's that rare for people to transcend the hand they were dealt, either. So very few Irish people of my generation had what passes as a 'good education' here and yet I see success among very many of them. In my husband's family, like many others, generations of farmers had left school at 11 to work the land. He is a chartered engineer, his siblings are doctors and pharmacists, one working at a very high level in international research. Among British Asian colleagues I see a similar pattern.

My mother is a primary teacher and she calls it 'educational capital'. Poor and less-educated families who encourage learning and achievement produce children who succeed despite poor schools in many cases.