If you can afford it, would you send your children to an independent school?

[Fiona2011231]

This is a hypothetical question, and I would greatly appreciate your insight.

My question is based on this assumption: In England, if you want your children to have a better chance in life (great success, joining the elites, etc), a good independent school is a requirement. Of course, few have enough money to afford it.

But suppose you have enough money, would you send your children to an independent school? Or would a grammar or a comprehensive school be good enough?

Thank you.

I entirely agree, nosleeptillbedtime - getting rid of private schools overnight won't change the fact that this society is set up to tolerate or even encourage segregation. The behaviours encouraged by centuries of segregation don't just disappear because someone says they should, one day. A majority have to really want the status quo to change, which won't happen until a majority think they are getting the bum end of the deal with no genuine chance of improving their situation without lying, stealing and cheating.

My DS goes to a school which sounds very much like Yermina's. A state comp, high ratio of FSM, very high GCSE stats, and in an area of S London which is less expensive than elsewhere in London with similiar transport / distance from centre, and the school intake is mostly from council estates and social housing, so house prices aren't the defining factor in the nature of the school.

From my address there is a choice of 3 excellent primaries, 2 good comps, one as yet untested comp and a lottery place at another good comp.

DS is progressing really well - challenged academically, has loads of extra-curricular activities, the school orchestra is astounding, he is happy - I would not choose independent, no, unless something went very wrong with his experience in his state school and we had no other option except moving.

Independent would be my contingency. If I could afford it. And it was my only / best solution available.

If it was up to me, I would abolish independent schools. Shut them down, get rid. Why already privileged children should be given even more advantages in life is beyond me. We should invest more in absolutely top quality state education, and everybody should send their kids to the local comprehensive. Not going to happen, I know, but that would be the right system in my opinion.

To answer OP, we can afford private and DS has been privately educated since he was 7, having spent a very happy 3 years at our local primary school. BUT we live in Cornwall, it is a poor area with a very limited choice of OK, but not great, schools and is 99% white. If we had stayed living in greater London we may well have made a different choice.

I remember reading this article and finding it quite interesting. Although the research is 5 years old, I would be surprised if a lot has changed since then.

It begs the question, do schools make society or does society make the schools? I tend to think that it is the latter and perhaps we should stop expecting so much from our schools in terms of bringing about social change. Perhaps we should just let them get on with their main priority which (IMO) is to inspire ALL children and young people, teach them and educate them to the best of their ability. Hopefully the rest will follow on from this in a more natural way. Or maybe I'm just too idealistic and out of touch.

I also believe that there is a big difference between 'education' and 'qualifications', and I feel that, because it is easier to measure 'success' in terms of exam results, that maybe the 'education' element has lost out to some extent over the last decade or so. Maybe this is one reason why people seem to be losing respect for education, and feel that it is pointless and has nothing to offer them. Echoes of Russell Brand's feelings towards politics?

Interesting article and one my own experience would back up.

I think the thread is drifting away from the OP question and into the age old "ban privates/free choice" debate.

We can argue that one forever. My take is that we should focus on the 95% of schools that are free and make them better. So good that only total snobs would consider wasting money on private schools.

I also think that we should focus on the 30% or so of faith schools that often have church going motivated parents and well motivated kids. The local comp gets what's left. That has a much much much bigger effect nationwide and is funded by the taxpayer. Closing private schools would mean, on average, 1 extra pupil or less in each state school class. That won't change anyones outcomes in that state classroom, nor will it change social mobility one jot.

I am with MuswellHillDad on this. Banning private schools is not a realistic policy, and actually if it were attempted could back fire. improving stae schools so that you have the situation you have in France where Private Schools still exist but are not seen to confer an advantage.

(They are often religious schools, and of course, in France, all state schools are secular.)

That last post of mine got garbled: I hope the sense is clear.

Private schools produce loads of nice, socially aware, caring kids. Let's not pretend they are all heartless toffs.

nlondondad

Wotcha

" improving stae schools so that you have the situation you have in France where Private Schools still exist but are not seen to confer an advantage." Perhaps the French experience is down to them being a Republic . The Class system is behind the advantage conferred by a top public school

Yes, I was let down by the state sector and I'm not prepared to let my DC suffer the same fate. There is too much government meddling in state education, shrinking budgets, growing classes etc etc

a) Private schools will never go away. They have their place.
b) Private school is not ever an engine of social mobility
c) State funds should be pushed into giving good schooling to the maximum number of children rather than those whose parents have the time to set up "free schools"

d) there are good and bad private schools
e) there are good and bad state schools
f) stuck up snobs come from bothtypes of school

In France private schools most definitely confer an advantage. They select their pupils and teachers, for a start. They are cheap and accessible however.

I disagree. Private schools can definitely be an engine if social mobility.

Bonsoir
In what circumstances are fee paying schools engines of social mobility?

I'd like to see evidence that bursaries go to children whose parents did not attend Private School / University / post 1970 Grammar Schools
because only by outreach beyond those groups is social mobility achieved.

Talkinpeace. You are right about "Stuck up Snobs" from both types of schools.
The difference though is that the Stuck up Snobs from state schools are the
Hyacinth Bucket types, deluded but harmless. The snobs from the "Public" schools tend to be Prime Ministers, Judges, Lawyers senior officials, I.E the people who decide peoples lives and have no comprehension outside their
bubble about life.

Yes. Not even a question.

Soul2000
I'm not quite sure why you are so anti private schools.

They are a fact of life.
The famous ones are a useful source of overseas earnings for the UK.
The parents who use them have already paid for several unused state school places through their taxes so they actually subsidise state schools.

Having chips on your shoulder will not serve any constructive purpose.
Supporting State school and non stuck up kids to achieve their potential is a much better aim.

We live what is described as a deprived area of London. Our DD is currently in an outstanding state school but we have decided to take her out and she will be starting in Jan 14 in an independent school. The main reason for this is that she is August born, described as a well behaved child and frankly she is getting a bit 'lost' in her current school. In the past, I never thought about private options but taking into account that I wasn't educated in the UK, from what I have seen so far, I have lost the faith in the UK state education.

What taxes are you paying as a foreign national not living in the UK when you pay your child's UK school fees, Talkinpeace? I can see that you are contributing to the earnings of people and institutions based in the UK, but don't really see a direct tax connection?

Why can't one be anti something that is a fact of life though talkin?

Talkinpeace. you are anti grammar schools but ambivalent to public schools.
I have said that i know that many private schools exist solely because there is a lack of selective education available in the state sector. That is a reason why
my niece and nephew would have gone private if no grammar school provision was available. Fortunately there was grammar school provision available. I just wish state education was good enough and varied enough to make only "Snobs" and foreigners use private education not the vast number of people who can.

There is also a huge difference between a independent Northern Day school
and a Southern Public school. Its public schools, i hate not private schools that have developed to serve a need, infact many of these private schools were ex grammar school.

Providing we could really afford it, then yes I definitely would send DD to a private school.

By this I mean not only the fees but all the extras that tend go with private education, expensive trips, sports etc.

DH has worked in the private education sector for 14 years and we could have sent DD to one of the school's he's worked at for ridiculously reduced fees. We would have struggled to afford all the extras though so decided against it.

I'm very happy on the whole with the state primary she attends, but having recently become a parent governor I have to say that the financial, practical and educational restraints present in the state sector are pretty terrifying.

IMHO private education offers a breadth of educational and social experiences that even the most outstanding state school couldn't hope to manage.

ha ha thats funny my daughter is a foreigner at her school....haven't seen any snobs or racism yet..

ooo maybe I sent her to the wrong school