If you can afford it, would you send your children to an independent school?

[Fiona2011231]

This is a hypothetical question, and I would greatly appreciate your insight.

My question is based on this assumption: In England, if you want your children to have a better chance in life (great success, joining the elites, etc), a good independent school is a requirement. Of course, few have enough money to afford it.

But suppose you have enough money, would you send your children to an independent school? Or would a grammar or a comprehensive school be good enough?

Thank you.

Talkinpeace - there are comprehensives with grammar streams (accessible via 11+) in Kent. I think you don't know about the reality.

Talkin I don't understand what you mean about how Tyne fits in with other schools. I know it is one of the worst schools in the city and I work in the social sphere and know the areas that feed into it. They are deprived areas like the one I come from.
I am going to have my tea now.

We are very much considering it as our local primary is shit. Full of polish kids who don't speak English. The sad thing is there is a very good grammar school for those who pass the 11 plus. There is no chance of that for any of the kids who go to this primary.

We could afford it but not without noticing. We would have to cut back on holidays and luxuries and Im not happy about it. On the other hand it would only be until secondary school.

We are planning four children, but would only put the smart ones through. DC1 has a good shot at passing the 11 plus, but DC2 does not.

word I know you don't

No - we live in an area with a lot of outstanding primary and secondary schools - also super selective grammars very close (Birmingham). I adore my dc school and couldn't ask for me if I were to pay for their education.

So, it seems bright and well behaved children need like minded peers... Does that apply to everyone else as well?

Depends where you live.

If you live somewhere with an outstanding, happy, secondary, which has better grades than the private school, who would...

bonsoir
According to Kent County Council's website there are four comprehensives in Kent, one of which is an Oasis Academy.
Streaming is an equally divisive form of segregation.

TOSN
All children need like minded peers - but the like mind will depend on the subject as some are good at maths and others good at sport and others good at art and others good at essays

We sent one child to a private school and no, we couldn't afford it but obtained grants and fees provision so that it was paid for. DS had problems and so it happened to be better for him.
DD chose to stay at the local secondary and that's where she went.

None of it was about "elite", it didn't come into the equation. And many private/public schools are not filled with "elite" (whatever that is) but ordinary folks looking for an education which best fits their child. There are many children who could not afford such an education in these schools, in some schools those on bursaries is as high as 20%. Children come from all sorts of backgrounds, from all walks of life...

JourneyThroughLife

"folks looking for an education which best fits their child"

EXACTLY.

If anyone here isn't doing exactly that and is, instead, caught up in ideology and opinion, then they are making bad decisions for their kids. I know quite a few parents that say one thing (befitting their politics) but want to do another.

Journey. Any family today who can afford 80% fees are in a fortunate position. We have millions of families who can't afford food or electricity .
Therefore if you can afford 80% fees your family are probably in the richest 10% of population. If you dont believe me ask Talkin Peace, you will be amazed how low the income level required is to be in that percentage of the population .

There are about 400,000 people in the UK earning over £100k.

There are about 20,000,000 people earning less than the national average.

No surprise that about 1% of taxpayers can afford about 5% of the education system that requires fees.

(I love stats a bit too much)

MuswellHill : have a look at this thread then ....
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/education/1902612-Interesting-maps

Oooh Talkin that map thread is fab! Thank you for sharing

Just to mention, soul2000, but I think JourneyThroughLife meant that up to 20% of the pupils were on a bursary, rather than that the bursaries were up to 20%. Thereby making the point that a significant chunk of pupils are not from 'elite' backgrounds.

Bursaries may make other private school parents feel all fluffy inside but they do remarkably little for social mobility.

Very few parents even consider the stress of applying, because of the humiliation of being turned down.
Very few parents can afford the "extras" that are not covered by bursaries - and if you live on little, fitting in with those who are used to "choice" is hard.
Very few parents can afford to send their kids to schools any distance from home.

In fact I'd be interested to know what percentage of bursaries go to families where the parents neither attended private school or university - ie where the bursary is reaching out rather than helping those who know the game.

Well talking about extras....

I think going to Paris on a school trip is an excellent idea.

Children in private schools DO NOT COME FROM ALL WALKS OF LIFE.

They come from well off families, or they come from poorer but exceptionally motivated families. The ones from poorer families often have highly educated and intelligent parents.

The majority of children in the state sector do not fall into either of these categories.

Private schools serve an elite of wealthy and/or exceptionally clever and well supported children.

Our school has cut right back on bursaries. They've added 4 new 50 percent scholarships so although they are nominally non selective this way they will keep their results up. All quite businesslike but then they are businesses

Yermina, sorry to sound like a stuck record but what you describe is exactly the situation in the best state schools where I live. Except poorer families, or even middling income families, have no hope of getting their kids in there unless they inherit a house.

nosleeptillbedtime - that doesn't stop it being a fact that the state sector has to educate children from all walks of life, though, does it? The existence of exceptionally expensive private schools is a bit of an advert that this country tolerates or even encourages segregation, so obviously that will spill into behaviour in the state sector, because that's the way our society is set up to behave.

I don't think private schools can be blamed for social segregation. If private schools disappeared the situation in my city would not change one bit. The causes of the segregation are much deeper than that and much wider than just education. The state sector does educate all children but there is still social segregation in the state sector.

Yes as long as a good one. Would so so for smaller classes, better discipline and more encouragement

For several reasons will have 1 dc in state, other in private. Completely openminded about it, all about what child needs and what we can afford.

If we could get DS into a genuinely very good comprehensive or a grammar school, we would not have made plans to go independent. But we started the slog towards independent (working on practice papers etc.) because we can't be confident of getting a place at a school where more than half the pupils get five GCSEs - which is fine if your child decides to join the 50% who work, but not so fine if he decides to coast with the 50% who don't.

Now that we've started, and encouraged him to put in the effort to get into a private school, we'd feel that we'd given him mixed messages if we were to put him into anything other than the two most outstanding comprehensives on our list - which are massively oversubscribed. So - yes, we are spending our last dime on school fees (provided DS gets a place), but would have considered state if our chances had been a bit better.