back from sports day for reception age - very upset

[Spatz]

Just been to our first sports day for about 25 years! Shocked by the treatment of small children - I thought the world had moved on. DDs reception class had to do egg and spoon, obstacle and sprint races then some throwing and jumping. The events were all won by the same few biggest children (all boys).

As far as it went that's okay because they had fun in the events, but the prizegiving at the end went on for about 15 mins while each of six races had three certificates and a medal for the winner - some lads had 5 or 6 prizes by the end and most children ended up with nothing. They became sadder and sadder as they realised they wouldn't get a certificate and many ended up in tears. At the end the head of the junior school said they should all go to their class teacher to make sure they got a little 'I'm a good sport' thing to pin on.

How are other sports days run? Is this normal?

We had our sports day today and the parents were awful! They were much worse than the kids and were actually threatening the judge and asked her if she was blind

saying that life is competetive but that's not a good thing doesn't change the fact that it is. Children have to learn to lose, that's a fact, whether we like it or nor.
We are not doing our children any favours by trying to shield themm from this. They should have a gentle introduction to this, appropriate to their age.

Right, Poppyflower, is that what we should say to the kid who's asthmatic or has a visual impairment then (are they even allowed to participate in these events?), 'life's all about competition and you'd better get used to losing now'?! Generally speaking it's the minority of winners who are in favour of competition and the majority of losers who are against it or de-motivated by it. You're right that there are many competitions in life (exams, university entrance, job interviews and how can any of you remember how it feels to 'lose' any of these?) and to some extent these are necessary but we shouldn't just accept the competitions that aren't necessary we should try to change this mentality. Competitive parents generate competitive children. Those of you saying that non-competitive sports days are 'boring' obviously have a certain agenda which you'll pass on to your kids for better or worse depending on whether they live up to the expectations you have created for them. Agree with Caligula and Senorapostrophe. If you're sporty and want to compete then join a club or do some extra-curricular activity. PE and schools should be about encouraging kids to enjoy exercise. Whoever said that the British are bad at sports on an international scale because schools don't encourage competitive sport has got it the wrong way round. Competitive sport is a contributor to childhood obesity IMO.

poppyflower: it isn't competetive though, for the 57th time.

when did you last have to publically enter a competition which you knew you would lose?

well said that cat

they don't have sports day at all at dd's school (in spain). I assume that's normal.

I disagree because I think it is human nature to be competetive, not just in exams and sports, but in pretty much every area of life. It is a very primeval urge to want to do better and to be in competition for the best land, wife, husband, position within a group.
These still exist, they have become more complicated and sophisticated in the way the present themselves, that's all.
We compete in the way we dress, and ,heavens above how many mothers have I heard trying to be as subtle as they can about the size, intelligence, beauty, etc of their children?
WE compete we always will, sometimes we win, sometimes we lose. I don;'t beleive that being a competition passivist helps a child. We to gently give our children the confidence to take part in the competitions of life.

yes, but children do that sort of competing in the playground anyway. why institutionalise it?

I think the best way to deal with sports days at schools is to allow those cihldren who do not want to take part, the chance to opt out.

There are lots of "primeval urges" - some of which are undesirable and useless in a modern context, others of which affect some people more than others. Just saying "it's a primeval urge, it's Human Nature" is far too simplistic, and is innaccurate.

You're still not managing to provide a good explanation of why very young children should be forced to compete publicly in events which they know they cannot succeed at and do not enjoy doing.

X posts Poppyflower

If you're suggesting that sports day be optional then it seems a bit pointless fr it to institutional at all - much better to keep school sport about fun and healthy exercise, and let those so inclined pursue their competitive urges in their own time.

Actually, I think we do our children a lot of favours by shielding them from losing. Like building their self-esteem and making them feel valued for just being themselves rather than being in the top 5% of the country and giving them enough confidence that they don't have to get involved in competition.

Yes, of course, I occasionally stop deliberately losing (or as dd1 grows up have to make a concerted effort to beat her) so that she does learn to cope with all the competitive types out there (I'm not one) and realize she's not invincible but that's in an environment where she's comfortable and in a game where she's already experienced excelling and chosen to play and she's not being watched by 100s. As an English teacher I try to shield kids from 'losing' all the time. But it's bloody difficult when they're up against SATS, GCSEs etc etc. And I can tell you from experience that once kids realize they're losing at something the vast majority start showing off in other negative ways or just give up. But it would be even harder to teach if they sat a test where I had to give out prizes to the best three kids every year.

And I'm just waiting for someone to say 'everyone's good at something' because this is just something we say to make people who aren't good at anything that's valued by most people (of whom unfortunately there are many) feel better when they've lost.

Poppy, I don't want to be involved in most competitions and fight some of my 'primeval' urges to get involved in others like 'my kids are the most beautiful and clever etc' because it's so obvious that this is bound to be my viewpoint and if there was ever an objective test they wouldnt' lost but they certainly wouldn't win either. I certainly don't compete with my clothes. I'd win hands down at the most scruffy and unfashionable and I don't care because there are more important things. Again, the kinds of competition set up to make women want to look good or compete with Kate Moss have had enormously destrucitve consequences (anorexia, low self-esteem for women, terrible pressure from men and women etc).

You can't say primeval urges are useless, that's silly! They are urges abd they are there! Many aren't desirable but trying to wipe out competition isn't going to make one iota of a diference!!!!!!
We like to think we are very civilised (and there IS a thin veneer to that), therefore we can't have theses urges any more, but really it is a very thin veneer kept in place by soceity structures and rules of a particular time. Take that away and I think you'll find that people revert back to primeval urges very quickly. You only have look at countries where civilisation has been torn apart by war and natural disaters. Sure, people don't become cave men, or anything like that, but there haven't got time for political correctness!.
I am of the 'old school' I beleive competition is healthy and I think the whole idea of a non competive sports day, games day whatever is farcial and ridulously pc.
There , no doubt I've made some of you very cross. It was not my intention, but I guess my views are deeply unfashionable at the mo but no doubt they'll be fashinoable again at some point. Things tend to go full circle.

I have also had ALOT of dealings with young adults who have obviously been told throughout their short lives that they are wonderful at everything. I makes then self-centered, conceited, arrogant and disrespectful.
They have been led to believe that they can have what they want, basically that they are wonderful at everything. They have clearly had little if any experience of loosing or fighting hard to win, or to do better at something.
They do not know how to fend for themselves, or deal with incidents in life that are not to thier liking.
I knew someone once who really believed that everyone had the right and capebility to be a doctor. She believed that a fair and just society would allow that to happen .
She believed that no one should have to be a dustman.
Her father has kept her all her life and always picked up the peices when she fell on her uppers. She just didn't know how to do it.

I'm puzzled by this idea that an ubercompetitive sports day is necessary to teach children about competition, winning and losing. They already know. Like Senora says, they compete with each other all the time.

And I find the suggestion that sports day should just be a competitive event for those who are good at it, with those who aren't able to opt out, deeply bizarre. Should we also take that attitude to art, maths, reading, music, science? Poppyf i think you're missing the point that we are talking about 4 and 5 year olds here, not 14 and 15 year olds. The beauty of this age group is that they're still full of confidence and positive energy about the things they can do. I'm constantly being told my DS that he's good at football, good at maths, good at quidditch, good at flying, good at reading, good at making things, etc. etc. He has plenty of time to find out that he's actually not good at some of these things - I really don't how it would be good for him to discover at a much earlier age, that he's never going to be David Beckham. They are young children fgs, let them keep their dreams a bit younger before we start battering them with the reality of life.

You could argue that many of the worlds problems (wars, global warming, obesity) are because of over-civilisation. I think you'll find that it's often the most 'primitive' societies that are the most peaceful. OK, the cavemen didn't have anti-biotics but neither did they have the nuclear bomb.

Poppy, you seem to be saying there's something good about 'primeval urges' and I'm just wondering exactly what they are and how you would feel if, for example, a man tried to use that argument for justifying a rape. Primeval urges aren't hugely 'useful' for a family who have decided they have enough children or don't want any either though admittedly they can be a lot of fun. They can either control their urges through birth control or sexual abstinece (I certainyl wouldn't recommend the latter!). They're also not helpful in our over-civilised society where there is an excess of food.

Also, can't you see why it's in the interest of certain institutions to create and disseminate the argument 'oh, it's all got ridiculously pc'. A lot of things that are dismissively labelled and ridiculed as 'pc' have actually been designed to encourage a more equal, tolerant and inclusive society. Poppy, I notice you haven't responded to my question as to how you deal with children with disabilities during a traditional competitive sports day also. Is that because this would be just too ridiculously too pc for you? How would you feel if you or your child was seriously asthmatic or had some other disability which prevented you/him/her from participating in or at least coming anywhere near winning a compulsory sports day event? Thought so, and you still think they're a good idea?

Those conceited, arrogant people you mention Poppy? I think you'll find they're the ones that won all the prizes at sports day. Either that or they're the ones who never met their own or their parents and teachers' expectations for them and so need to boast to hide their own insecurities. Truly confident people don't need to boast, show off or compete.

So not true, the complete opposite.Actually my son's asthma is bad enough to hinder him greatly. He likes to win and he can't beacause he gets out of breath. i can't pretend that isn't happening to him. he is learning to win at the things he can win at and learning to deal with his own limitations. it seem you would rather his friends diudn't do sports day beacause my son would be handicaped!!!! Brt they'd like that. We are not all good at everythingThey an oympics for disabled people. You reckon you should ban running races beecause a disabled child can't join in? Come on!!!!
Find something they can join in with fgs

cat - agree about the arrogant people, but lots of "primitive" societies are, or rather were, just as violent as us but without the technolgy. think of medieval society, cannibal societies etc etc.

problem is those young adults never had any expectations to meet, they never HAD TO TRY. They were babied and mollycoddled and believed themselves invisible, not because they won everything but BEACAUSE they didn't have to deal with competition and losing.

"find something they can join in"

that's the point really. I think the emphasis at sports day should be on joining in, not on winning. you don't have to pretend there isn't a winner, but you can give all of the finishers stickers or badges, for example, and not just the top 3. You can also make sure there is a wide variety of races, including team races, so more kids get a chance to win something.

...but poppyflower - if you're talking about young adults you're almost definately talking about people who had the traditional sports day that you advocate and it didn't affect them. like b&wc says, they were most probably the ones who won everything.

Yes, I agree

But poppy, where are the public maths competitions? The public art competitions? The public reading competitions? With medals, and trophys?

I agree with whoever said that as an institution, a school's job is to promote fitness and healthy activity to all pupils at whatever level they can manage. They can offer extra clubs to people who want it and/ or are good at it and they can signpost them to extra-curricular sports clubs. But to exclude people not so good from a mainstream curriculum subject, is just not reasonable. Would you feel the same about maths?

And they are 4!!