back from sports day for reception age - very upset

[Spatz]

Just been to our first sports day for about 25 years! Shocked by the treatment of small children - I thought the world had moved on. DDs reception class had to do egg and spoon, obstacle and sprint races then some throwing and jumping. The events were all won by the same few biggest children (all boys).

As far as it went that's okay because they had fun in the events, but the prizegiving at the end went on for about 15 mins while each of six races had three certificates and a medal for the winner - some lads had 5 or 6 prizes by the end and most children ended up with nothing. They became sadder and sadder as they realised they wouldn't get a certificate and many ended up in tears. At the end the head of the junior school said they should all go to their class teacher to make sure they got a little 'I'm a good sport' thing to pin on.

How are other sports days run? Is this normal?

I've wondered how it changed too...
I'd still appreciate some comments on the head's response to our suggestions of how sports day could be improved for the children:

"I agree that a lot of the medals and certificates went to the same children. It is worth remembering, though, that some of these children - especially those in Reception - are the ones who are not shining in their academic studies. It is a moment for them to receive recognition for something that they are very good at - in the way that a good musician will get recognition during a concert or that the academic will get recognition through the good work stars and prizes at speech day."

Poppy, I think if you read my posts again, my stance on competition is pretty clear. As I have just said, I am joining in a discussion which may be a forum for differences of opinion and does not create winners and losers (a hang up of yours apparently).

When you say you find putting an apostrophe in '70's' clearer you show a complete lack of understanding of the function of the apostrophe. An apostrophe marks either possession or ommission not a plural (sticking an apostrophe wherever they see a word ending in 's' is something my weaker students are really fond of). Isn't this one of the grammatical mistakes that 'hinder your enjoyment' of a text? Or are you and only you exempt from the 'standards' that you've said you're sorry to see declining?

The more you post, Poppy, the more you undermine your own arguments. If it'll make you feel better to have the last word, be my guest, but perhaps you should check with an English teacher first (or indeed one of these older people with such a brilliant grasp of grammar you describe).

Spatz, I think your teacher is making all kinds of assumptions in that letter. As other posters have pointed out there is no link between sporting and academic ability one way of the other.

Spatz, I'd reprove the teacher for her lazy stereotyping.

My stance is that life is competitive whatever you or anybody says. The point I was trying to make (and I apologise if it was too subtle) was that your posts on one hand decry competition but on the other hand are extremely competitive.

Regarding the apostrophe, again I've obviously been too subtle: Fowler's Modern English Usage published by Oxford University Press is recognised as the most authoritative work available on the subject. Your knowledge may be more comprehensive than their's, I don't know. I do know, however, that I'll continue to refer to Fowler's rather than yourself.

Sorry to hear about your experiences as a 'loser' at competitive sport at school. We are all losers at competitive sport and other areas of our lives at some time or other. My point is that it's how we deal with it that counts and it's the dealing with it that moves us on and helps us grow as more complete inividuals.

I'm sorry Spatz for allowing myself to be diverted. I think the head is making the general point that through competition we can find those areas in our lives in which we succeed and find personal fulfillment in those aress. I agree with him/her.

poppyflower - there is some competition in life, yes, but mine and b&wc's stance has been that it isn't anything like the kind of competition described in the first post on this thread unless you are an athlete. I don't think she has been particularly competetive towards you btw - you've just wound each other up, but even if you're right in your description, the distinction between rivalry type competition and formalised contests still stands.

Anyway at the head who thinks sports day is just for rewarding non academic acheivers. A response is definately in order.

Must confess that seeing sports day as being for the 'non academic' is more than a little daft.

Mind you, It can be great to go to sports day as a member of staff and see kids who *don't don well in your subject excell at something.

Last year I taught a real handful of a girl, very poor attitude, never did any work etc in science. Then I saw her blow away the oppostition in the 800m race.

We still didn't have a great relationship....her probelms were too great for a 'quick fix' but she knew that she was good at something and so did I.....and that had to be a good thing, I think.

Sorry but at "their's" - don't think you'll find that in Fowler's poppyflower

surely it should be "them's"

course it shouldn't, next please

If you say so Spatz, might be ok for you

Spatz, I worry a bit about this idea that if a child isn't doing v. well academically it's a good idea to encourage him or her to be sporty. A lot of heart-ache can result when people give up their studies to pursue the dream of sporting excellence when there can be only a tiny minority of people who make a living out of sport though I understand this isn't exactly what your head was saying. Like I said earlier, this line 'everyone's good at something' is often and sadly something we just say to make the people who aren't very good at anything feel better.

Back to the OP, I think most of us agree that sometimes it's helpful to have some kind of incentive to encourage us to perform better even if this is the praise of others or some kind of internal goal-setting and carrots are always better than sticks. Yes, children will face different forms of competition in their lives and yes, they have to learn to lose but this is something that has to be introduced in a v. sensitive way so they don't lose confidence, self-esteem, hope and motivation. Any school activitity that only sees a handful of students feel good and the rest feel bad has obviously been badly conceived and/or managed.

Poppy, do you know what I'm not about to rush out and buy a Fowler's to find out which bit of it you've misunderstood this time but I'm happy to lend you the worksheets we give to year 7 on how to use an apostrophe. Better still I could get some of my students to explain it which might also improve your feeling about standards amongst young people (I have five 17 yr old students predicted an A grade in English Literature and they've come up through the comprehensive system and have me as a teacher)!

For your own sake I just wish you'd stop because I'm starting to get embarrassed for you. You say 'standards' have declined since the 70s but presumbably you were educated before this and don't know where to put an apostrophe and have no evidence for the great 'decline' anyway. In your later posts you say you like the idea of language changing but earlier you said we lose out because of it (esp. when words come from America and Australia for some reason. Don't know what you've got against them). You now say you like some additions to English like 'morphs' but not 'wicked' according to some random personal taste that only you can understand. You like the idea of learning by rote and being publicly humiliated in school and like the idea of winners and losers but think if your own grammar is 'corrected' (not that I care what your grammar is like, remember, but you seem to) you're being insulted. There's just no coherence to your arguments.

Also, I don't think I am being competitive, Poppy, I just like to correct nonsense and challenge people's assumptions hence my vocation is to teach.

What's so good about sport anyway? We don't have an annual science day or poetry day or drama day (or do we?). Exercise is important and it to be encouraged and enjoyed but sport should be just another subject that you can opt out of when you're old enough to understand. I know, I know, I need to shut up now...

Blimey Cat, thanks for feeling embarassed on my behalf, there really is no need; I do understand you don't think you're being competitive. I'm just going to have to agree with you again regarding my own "random personal taste", I like to call it subjectivity but I'm happy for you to call it "random personal taste" if that's what you want. BTW it's you that told me it's not nice to have my grammar corrected, my view is that I make mistakes all the time, day in day out, week in week out. Feel free to correct them.

It's great to hear that some of your students are getting grade A's in English and that they may be articulate enough to explain apostrophe usage. They needn't bother though, I'm totally familiar with both traditional and modern usage. Your offer to lend me the year 7 worksheets is very generous but I think I'm going to stick with my Fowler's. Is it really true that you teach English literature but don't own a Fowler's? Your students may be doing better than you think.

To quote your last paragraph Cat, "I just like to correct nonsense and challenge people's assumptions hence my vocation is to teach". Is that what you put on your CV when you applied for the job?

Poppy, shall we just agree to differ on just about everything? I think we've both quite enjoyed airing our views but probably should be getting on with other things? And that's the beauty of a discussion thread isn't it? You opt in and opt out and maybe quite like getting a bit riled? You may have your views challenged or confirmed but you don't really win or lose. A bit different from a competitition then.

Getting back to the Sports Day stuff .......life is competitive you know . OK so ds is only 3.10 and as we are not living in the UK Sports Days don't feature. However he is, and will, be encouraged to be competitive in all things sporting, and that includes how to come last gracefully.

blackandwhitecat > you are the dreariest spart I've heard on here for some time. You think people should be denied competitive sport because you're obviously crap at it. Yours is the lowest common denominator thinking which caused Labour councils to sell off half of London's school playing fields in the 1970s ? why would we want them, they'll only be used for nasty aggressive football ? and and now we have a child obesity problem.

Not allowing naturally sporty children to excel and win, is like saying let's not have a school band or choir because it will descriminate against the tone-deaf and unmusical.

If I had a disabled or asthmatic child, I'd accept they might not win the 100m. I'd encourage them into different activities. I wouldn't stop all children enjoying and winning at these events because mine wouldn't come first.

jesus, why is everyone being so personal about this?

dullwitch - no-one is suggesting we deny anyone anything. But actually for most kids, just winning the race is enough, without a prize giving ceremony to rub the other kids' noses in it. after all, those kids in the school band don't get a medal for it do they?

Now I do actually think that team sorts are better than races at age 4 or 5 too, but they'll have plenty of time for races etc when they're older.

Dullwitch, I think you've missed quite a few of my posts which is totally understandable because there are loads of them and they're long. I have said several times that exercise is important but that's not the same as sport. I actually feel very strongly that schools have a duty to encourage exercise and educate kids about health, exercise and nutrition but what compulsory competitive sport for all kids does is v. often to put off (sadly often for life) the very kids who need to be turned on to exercise.

My dh is a PE teacher in secondary schools and will gladly tell you that the most frequent PE refusers are the ones who are over-weight, have disabilities (including visual impairments) and the ones who are crap at sport. Oh, and lots of girls who don't like to sweat or spoil their hair or have communal showers (or to be ogled by Yr 9 boys while they run about and are just adapting to their adolescent bodies).

I'm quite happy for schools to run sports and have competitive sports days for those who want to do them. The rest should do PE if that really means Physical Education and should be encouraged to find an exercise they're good at and they enjoy.

The kind of kid who is going to win medals at sports day is already fit and probably already doing extra-curricular sports and of course s/he should have opportunities to develop his or her skills if that's what he or she wants but that doesn't mean everyone has to compete against him or her (and lose) if they don't want to.

Like I said, no one would say 'hey, we need more scientists/ poets/ mathematicians in this country and students who are good at these subjects need to be encouraged so let's make everyone in the school take part in a compulsory and public maths/science/ poetry competition and only give out prizes to the best three'. So why is that mentality ok for sport?

So far off the mark, Dullwitch, I exessed concern about childhood obesity why down the thread and I loathe the idea of selling off playing fields and have never even considered banning competitive sport or whatever you suggested.

But a school or govt really concerned about kids' fitness would achieve much better results by encouraging kids to exercise daily as part of normal life (like walking to school, running in the playground) and banning vending machines selling chocolate and fizzy drinks rather than forcing already unfit and fat kids to huff and puff along a sports field once a year while everyone else laughs at them and only applauds the kid who comes first!!

It was my son's first sports day...he was part of his house so gained points for his team (who came 4th !!!!!) the winning team did a lap of honour at the end of the day...which I think was great....am in agreement that life is competitive (and sometimes hard) ...but still appreciate that it's hard for some of the really little ones....they did all seem to enjoy it though....I pulled my hamstring in the mums race (blush).....

Dullwitch --is that where you live?

Dullwitch - my point is that at this age it wasn't the 'sporty' children who won - it was the biggest (and they were all boys). There is no way a child of 3ft is going to run faster than one of 4ft however 'sporty' they are.

As NOT A's.

blackandwhitecat I award you first prize for Staying Calm in the Face of Rudeness and Provocation
and a special award for Talking Lots of Sense
here's a big shiny cup for you

hip hip hooray!
&c&c