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Genuine question - why do some people have a problem with the grammar school system thread 2

381 replies

octopusinastringbag · 29/10/2013 10:04

Original thread full so here goes.

I think the people who are concerned about aspirational/non-aspirational need to trust their DCs to select friends who are like minded. Generally it is my experience that they find their own groups who are similar to them, especially with setting and especially once the GCSEs have started.

OP posts:
curlew · 30/10/2013 17:19

I would be very surprised if drug and alcohol misuse among teenagers was restricted to Kent!

Xoanon · 30/10/2013 17:20

Losing business dress in the sixth form is one of the most ridiculous things there is (they do it at our schools too). It makes me fizz with rage.

Xoanon · 30/10/2013 17:21

curlew There are private schools in Kent. And since you have a child at each type of school what does that make you - half posh?

curlew · 30/10/2013 17:24

I think you might be mistaking me for someone else?

I agree, the posh schools in Kent are the private schools and the grammar schools.

Xoanon · 30/10/2013 17:24

curlew Losing the hyperbole for a moment - of course it isn't. There are some really bad areas though, really bad, and if you don't live near them or know them well then that's good, I wouldn't wish the sort of things I've heard about from my friend on anyone. :( There are very very bad drug problems all over the UK, really - and to suggest that they are restricted to grammar schools is nutty and offensive really. Of course the ridiculous comments about stabbings were annoying but best not to sink to that level of ludicrousness, don't you think?

Xoanon · 30/10/2013 17:25

curlew no I don't think so.

curlew · 30/10/2013 17:27

"There are very very bad drug problems all over the UK, really - and to suggest that they are restricted to grammar schools is nutty and offensive really"

Had I done so, it would indeed have been nutty, offensive and ridiculous. Good thing I didn't, then, isn't it?

LaQueenOfTheDamned · 30/10/2013 17:30

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

abbiefield · 30/10/2013 17:32

business dress in the sixth form is one of the most ridiculous things there is (they do it at our schools too). It makes me fizz with rage

We do this in my school and I do not fizz with rage. Indeed teachers have a similar dress code too. There was a letter in the local paper this last week from an ordinary lady in the street who was criticising some pictures of local state school and she commented on the poor and scruffy dress.

So, what is this about? Well, first it is image. In my school we want present a good image,just as most businesses do. They may have corporate dress. Thats called uniform in school. One of our local grammar schools does uniform. We decided to allow our sixth formers more autonomy.

Secondly its about anticipatory socialisation. We anticipate ( and hope the students do too) that our sixth formers are going into management posts in business or professions eventually and want them to have an appropriate understanding of suitable dress.

Thirdly, if we did not have some sort of code, experience of other schools ( and lord forbid our own too) 16 - 18 year olds have little sense and may well turn up dressed like Miley Cirus because its " cool" We do not want that on the school bus in a morning. I can see enough of that in the local comprehensive around a mile away.

Finally, it6 does lend itself to some sort of corporate belonging. A sense of pride in community and school. It also serves a purpose of ensuring that we do not have too much distinction between the wealthiest and the less well off in school. They all wear pretty well the same and that is good for them and us.

But each to their own. School isnt just about exams and subjects and results. Its also about social roles and modelling and learning those soft skills for the future.

losingtrust · 30/10/2013 17:33

I must admit I took a few drugs in my late teens and I was a model pupil apart from talking too much. Used to have a joint before bed in the days before my finals at uni to relax. i am not proud of it but I think we forget that drugs are more common that we let on and were in my day (mid 40s). I just think drugs are stronger now and children more likely to be approached outside of schools particularly in MC areas where they know more children will have money. My DD (9) was warned at school not to accept anything from a stranger as they were caught pushing sweet-like drugs outside the local schools. It is very sad when primary school kids have to be warned.

Xoanon · 30/10/2013 17:33

Curlew You suggested they were a grammar school problem as opposed to a general school problem and offered as evidence 17 years of living in Kent. You want to argue with everyone, even people who at least semi agree with you. I won't waste my finger strength responding to you any more. Carry on with your war of ridiculous hyperbole. There is absolutely nothing even slightly resembling sensible discussion in this thread any more just wild claims and counter claims from people who have no interest in dialogue and are only interested in monologue.

abbiefield · 30/10/2013 17:34

I would be very surprised if drug and alcohol misuse among teenagers was restricted to Kent!

Neither is it restricted to private schools and grammar schools.

soul2000 · 30/10/2013 17:37

Well wearing a business suit and tie/skirt, is better than wearing shell suits
and hooded tops........ TRACKY BOTTOMS NIKE'S ....

Xoanon · 30/10/2013 17:37

Before I go - LaQueen I have one child at one of the top superselectives in the country and another who has just passed the exam to go there next year. I am trying to gently explain that grammar schools - which you do not yet have any children at - are not actually filled exclusively with angels but with actual human children. That's all. Grammar schools are no schools for saintly kids they are schools for clever kids. The two sets are not always isomorphic.

losingtrust · 30/10/2013 17:38

A lot of businesses are now relaxing their dress codes so schools seem to be slightly behind the curve. I agree there should be some restrictions but do not see how this builds community.

curlew · 30/10/2013 17:39

I have looked back through my posts and I can't see where I said that drugs and alcohol were restricted to grammars and private schools. I did say that drugs are more prevalent among teenagers with more money to spend- and that does tend to be the kids from posh schools. But I didn't say that only kids from posh schools use drugs- that would be a stupid thing to say!

Xoanon · 30/10/2013 17:40

abbiefield It makes me fizz with rage because I find it slightly sexist that the girls are expected to dress like receptionists. I work in the city, in a professional firm, at director level, and appropriate dress for women in that type of role is not what most schools seem to think is 'business dress'.

LaQueenOfTheDamned · 30/10/2013 17:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

losingtrust · 30/10/2013 17:40

A tie at sixth form! Wow when are we going to let them grow up and choose their own dress sense. Try wearing a tie in the BBC or as a computer consultant! Really.

Xoanon · 30/10/2013 17:43

Losing - it just seems so provincial! But then I guess I live in a provincial place now. :( I am banned from even mentioning the sixth form uniform to anyone who matters by my DD because she is mortified that I am so annoyed about it. Grin This is obviously partly because she doesn't have the experience of being a glass ceiling smasher and coming from a time when women were judged more on how they looked than on what they could do in the traditional professions. Also she doesn't want to do the sort of job I do so it;s not really a problem for her.

LaQueenOfTheDamned · 30/10/2013 17:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Xoanon · 30/10/2013 17:47

LaQueen I don't have a problem with school uniform carrying on into sixth form. I have a problem with what some schools deem business dress (for girls). Not so much for boys although as Losing rightly points out there are many areas of business now where to wear a tie would be seen as something approaching a faux pas.

losingtrust · 30/10/2013 17:48

They do look like receptionists! Funnily enough I suggested my dd wear trousers last week because she hates tights and the answer. 'No girls wear trousers Mom'. Maybe we are raising girls for the new 1050s.

losingtrust · 30/10/2013 17:49

Sorry 1950s but maybe 1050s may be more appropriate.

abbiefield · 30/10/2013 17:50

I do not think we make our female students dress like receptionists. Far from it, we allow autonomy in their dress including wearing trouser suits if they wish. What we dont allow is jeans, jeggings, leggings, trakies, low cut tops, bra straps showing, or for the boys, tight trousers, polo shirts or sleeveless tops. Neither do we allow baseball caps ( unless playing baseball) or wollie caps or hoodies of any kind.

It certainly does help with community consiousness. They are partof our school and they express the standards of our school. Thats what it is about.