TEmporarily excluded from secondary school

[Piffle]

DS yr 7was this morning excluded for an undetermined time
This morning he filled his blazer pockets with the contents of his pencil case as the puppy has chewed his case.
In that case was a craft knife he uses for manga cartoons
Someone saw it when he met up with his friends before school. DS was suddenly aware he had made a faux pas and ran to school and locked it in his locker.
One of the kids told the teachers.
DS is now home.
He is likely to be exckuded from the national quiz final he and his team mates have worked towards for 7 months, on sunday.
Paying for naivety
I'm swaying between it being bloody unfair and that the school have no choice
Either way my ds is destroyed.
As am I

I think I will write a thought out and considered letter to the school in a few days, once I've had a chance to reflect some more.
His reintegration into school is key to how this affects him, I feel like I'm throwing him to the lions
The deputy head I intensely dislike, she is all judge and jury, not an ounce of compassion or humanity.
I know it is important to get a mesage across about knives, I know this same rule protects my son, but if a school cannot apply individual leniency in certain circumstances what on earth does that teach children?
And the toss pots have now involved a police liaison officer to visit us at home.
Honestly

Good luck with this Piffle. For what it's worth, I think you're spot on.

She has just called me.
She was actually kindly in her words today.
But somethign still feels wrong, I@m not sure I cna articulate yet, but given some time I'll be able to.
She has said FWIW she would stake her pension that he will never err again
I said he would never intentionally err as it happens, but he is the original mad professor and I cannot guarantee that he will not make an innocent or naive mistake again
He is 12, did we all have all our lesson learned by then?

So is she calling off the police liaison visit? Why is it necessary? Does your son have to see them? I think everyone agrees that he's got the point, now. Why continue piling it on?
Sorry - feeling a bit bloody minded on your behalf now.

Been reading this thread with interest I somthing strikes me as odd. Why have the school punished your son for carrying a craft knife he uses in school? Its not a weapon, just a tool. Surely thats OTT? In the real world if the police had stopped someone carrying a knife they were going to use at say their allotment, they would probably let them go without a caution even. I understand that knives in schools are a big no no (I used to work as a teacher so can understand why that is so!) but if the school say its ok to take & use a knife in a lesson but then punish a child for carrying that knife between classes, surely they need to look at their rules a bit closer. He didnt intend to use the knife in a any way apart from its actual use - art! I would be very surprised if the police have very much to say about this - surely no crime has been committed here - nor was there any intent to do so?

Well, I agree with your own 9.30am post, piff and I think drawing a line would be much better than writing letters of complaint, personally. I think this is one of those awful situations where, despite naivity being the cause, the school has no choice but to act on the facts. Your boy brought a knife into school. He let his mates see that he had it- and thank goodness no one decided to lark about with it as kids often do. He knew it was wrong to do this even accidently so panicked and hid it in his locker. I think the school have been quite fair really and imo it would be much more positive to talk to ds about his organisation and "crisis management" skills rather than run the risk of tacitly encouraging him to view the school's handling of the situation as unfair. I think I'd have a big chat with him about other ways he could have handled the situation (would it have been better for him to have come home and dropped it off even if it meant he got into trouble for being late, for example?) but otherwise let it lie. I think it's sad that he has to miss the quiz and if he was mine I'd commiserate but I'd also want to make it absolutely clear that I thought he'd done something v silly and the consequences could have been awful. Sorry if this sounds harsh- I would hate this to happen to one of mine (and can well imagine them being scattily naive enough to land themselves in this sort of situation) but I do think that the school have handled things pretty well in the circs and I would not be wanting to do anything other than support them, myself. I think it would be a real disaster if ds returned to school feeling all hard done by. Yes, it might be a hard readjustment and he sounds like a child who won't find the fact that he's been in trouble easy to handle- I was the same and one of my sons is like that as well and I do sympathise- but I think I'd want to encourage him to acknowledge that he did make a mistake that could have had very serious effects, in the context of making it clear that I loved him and thought he was generally a great kid.

I cannot believe what you say about police liaison officor. OMG. I know they have to get the message home on the one hand but really.
Like I said, Dh has had several near misses at aiports with his knife key ring & has been able to dispose of it. Sounds like that's exactly what your ds did, but just being a kid, wasn't able to anything more sophisticated.

It's like he's being punished all over the place for what was a genuine mistake.It's tough, I can see the school's pov re one rule for all, but like you said, accidentally brining something into school isn't on the same par as gobbing on teacher. And it really is a double punishment re quiz too. Hope you can find some sort of satisfactory outcome. Has the head had as much to do or has it all been delegated to dep?

Piffle - total sympathy for you and your son - very harsh lesson to learn. However, I do think that the school sound reasonable in their handling of this. They have to be fair and consistent with their policies and cannot be seen to pick and choose when the rules apply, especially over such a sensitve and important safety issue as this. They sound like they have gone out of their way to explain that they believe and understand his reason for the error and no doubt will try to help him when he returns to school.
The quiz trip is a tough call. I am not sure I would have cancelled his involvement in it as it falls outside the exclusion time by a few days. However, I guess the message they are sending out needs to be loud and very clear to the rest of the school. Otherwise it might look relatively glib - only a couple of days off school and then everything is fine again etc etc (I know it is more than that as it goes on his record for a while and has involved serious discussions with the school and parents, but to pupils eyes, two days is not much).
You sound such a caring and sensible mum, I am sure that you will be able to help him lose any bitterness he feels for the school over the next couple of weeks and that his enthusiasm and enjoyment returns quickly.

It reminds me of an incident that happened to me and is a possible cautionary tale of how to handle it after the punishment has been given:
I used to teach in a secondary school. We were running a large scale musical and pupils and parents all signed a "contract" to say that they would attend all rehearsals unless ill etc and that if they missed any then they could lose their place in the show. We had such a huge amount of children wanting to take part that it was only fair to be very tough and expect total commitment. One girl, who was so serious and dedicated had a minor part - she was yr 11. She lived for her Drama. She had a summer job in a restaurant and was asked at work to work one weekend. She felt she couldn’t say no or she would lose it. She missed a whole weekend of critical rehearsals, lied about it to cover tracks and got caught out. We took her part away and said she could go in the chorus as a compromise in recognition to all her hard work. Parents up in arms, letters to the head, endless meetings and heartache. She was so disillusioned by what we did, she flunked her GCSEs badly (only a couple of months away) stopped doing Drama altogether (she had loved it more than any other subject) and never participated anything in the school again. We felt awful and still, a decade on, I wonder if we should have handled it differently. I wish the parents had handled it differently too - ie. once they realised that we were not going back on our decision regardless how much they pushed us, I wish they had helped her get over it, persuade her to keep up her studies, see that it was only one little issue in the bigger picture etc etc If only they had tried to empathise and understand our reasons and told their daughter that it was tough but that she had made a mistake etc and life is like that, then maybe she could have stopped feeling like a poor hard done by victim, taken full responsibilty and moved on.
I realise that you are handling this much better than they did, but it is really important that he sees you support the school and accept the punishment/help him take responsibility. Draw that line and consider any further letters or continually going over it in front of him very very carefully.

(sorry, very long and rambly, not well expressed as I am rushing, hope you can see my point in there somewhere!!!)

What I say and think and what I let ds know are two very different things
Part of me totally understands the school being tough and been seen to be tough.
But the part of me that sees my delightful helpful, kind, high achieving, school loving pre adolescent son, knows that it's wrong
I'm working on reconciling the two
FWIW I spoke to the police liaison on the phone and they were also astonished...

I fully accept that your son didn't deliberatly set out to break a rule, but then, very few kids do. Most of them are just being daft.

If you challencge a child about carrying a knife they will all say the same thing, 'it is for self defense only', some of them will even really mean what they say. What should we do in those cases? To a degree, the intent is imaterial, knives are just to bloody dangerous

Just as an aside, does he cut up the 'Manga' cartoons in a school club? Was that why it was in his pencil case. Because if he only does it at home, the knife should really stay at home.

It can very very , very hard for bright able, nice kids (all of which piffle junior is) to accept that they too can cock it up. And if they do, they have to take the same fall as everyone else. I hope that he does do the maths challenge, he has plenty of stamina and 'backbone' and doing well when you are pissed off with life is the best way of showing the world that you have courage, personality and integrity.

Very much agree with that, mb. And Baglebird. And am glad you aren't letting your doubts show in front of your son, piffle. Because what he did was very silly and as his friends saw the knife before school- how did that happen, btw?- could easily have become dangerous and he definitely needs to know that, imo.

The puppy we have got hold of his pencil case as ds left it on the floor in the morning before he went to school
ds was running late so he grabbed what he thought he needed from the floor and filled his blazer pockets and left the house.
He did not need the craft knife at school, he is doing a project at school which he thought he might need it for, but he really should have known at that point not to take it
And to put it into blazer pockets piled with stuff
IE: in his pockets were
12 large manga pro markers, 1 ruler, 1 compass, maths equipment, calculator, wallet, mobile phone
His pockets were bulging when I picked him up.
Someone saw his pockets filled with all these unique pens and asked to see what he had.
So he showed them, pens and the craft knife, when one of the kids yelled, * has got a knife, ds refused to show it and went straight into school. Put it in his locker
He said at that point he did think about telling a teacher but thought he would get into trouble as he realised when that boy yelled what he did, that he had made a HUGE faux pas.
RE reading it I can see what a silly silly boy he was
DS leaves the house regularly without things, this is just another incident from the same problem, which he now has to address. His primary school yr 6 teacher said he could lose everything if he did not learn to be organised - she was prophetic in her words... sadly

I stll am not happy that he could be punished for something that might have happened btw.

Don't understand your view at all piff. Sorry- am really trying as I like the sound of you and your boy and do sympathise with disorganisation and impulsiveness as these are v familiar to me both personally and with my children. But what do you mean you are unhappy that he is being punished for something that might have happened? Surely he is being punished for something that DID happen. He DID bring a knife into school which is not allowed for very important reasons. He also got it out in the street and is therefore v lucky that one of his mates didn't grab it and start acting the goat with it as lots of 11-12 year olds might have done. Do you mean he shouldn't be punished because no one was hurt? I'm sure you can't mean this but don't understand what you are driving at- probably being thick- sorry!
Can certainly see where you're coming from on the police liaison stuff being ott and missing the quiz being harsh but surely from here on in the best thing would be to say well, ds, hard lessons indeed but I'm so glad that it didn't end in someone getting hurt and that your school takes these things seriously.

completley agree scummy.

Not that long ago I was caught doing more than 30 in a 30 zone. The 30 mph zone is aroound a school. Before you all lynch me, I made the cock up on a Sunday.

I could have argued that it is only a 30 zone because of the school, and since it was a sunday no lids were there. But I didn't. I broke a rule, and I should have. I was caught fairs fair, and had been a muppet.

THere was no point is arguing that I am a woman of good character, have never done this sort of thing before, that there was no-one on the road, that no-one got hurt....I was caught and shouldn't have broken the law. Essentialy I was being punished for something that might have happened.....I could have hit a child coming out of school going too fast. I couldn't have, because it was a sundy and the area was deserted

Kids have died being knifed, had their faces slashed. Schools have to take it seriously. And yes, they can, and do use a blade from a pencil sharpener, but we have to draw the line somewhere.

I also feel that I have a right to work in an environment that is knife free.

What would you say if a child took a bb gun into school, by accident? They might not intend it to do harm, but it might.

Firstly, I think now the rules are in place the school has no choice how to act.
But I do think they should review their policy. Everyone remembers saying It's not fair when they were at school and having a good whinge, but when an over-the-top punishment means the child requires something akin to counselling to ensure they don't become disaffected then surely there must be something wrong.

The speeding ananlogy works both ways. I have been stopped a couple of times but have never been given a ticket. If the police can show discretion so can schools.

He is only little - year 7 are still childen. We all develop at different rates and saying he should be more mature, organised or whatever is like blaming a baby for being a late walker. Imo a fitting punishment for a year 11 for example may not be appropriate for a year 7.

It isn't a weapon it is a craft knife. Yes, it could have been used as one but it wasn't and so can a lot of things. A bb gun isn't going to be in school 'by accident' in the same way as a craft knife can be.

spot on martianbishop.
Piffle, I know that you are the type of mum to be careful what you say in front of your son, but please be careful how far you take this. I think you might make things worse if you push this issue with the school. There is no question he broke the rule and that it is a very important and serious one. As a result he has been punished. The school has taken into account the circumstances and his character. What more do you expect them to do?

I think that with time, you will see that your argument that he has been punished for what someone else might do is flawed. You are understandably upset that your son has ended up in this position and I really sympathise. Sorry if my posts have upset you, just trying to see it from the school and other parent’s of children at the school’s point of view x

Totally agree, Quangle.

BB - He did not deliberately break the rules and while it sounds as though the school listened to the circumstances and his character, these don't appear to have been taken into account but ignored and a blanket rule applied.

I can see both points honestly. I fluctuate between both myself, every ten minutes as I said earlier. Had I heard this story about another child, I guess I'd be on the schools side to be fair.
the phrasing on the letter says that the punishment is ....
...the bringing any type of knife into school, that could easily have fallen into the hands of someone who could or would use it as a weapon, therefore the exclusion from school reflects the potential seriousness of xxx's actions, while we recognise that xxx had no thought of such consequences. We accept xxx is telling the truth and that the incident occured only due to a naive lack of forethought.
The short length if the exclusion shows this.
We will work hard to make sure xxx is accepted fairly and with compassion upon his return to the school tomorrow. Both myself and my deputy head as well as xxx's Form Tutor will operate an open door for xxx to come if he finds any aspect of this difficult.
I would like to offer our sincerest thanks for your patience, understanding and handling of this incident and the school looks forward to xxx's return to school, where all his many contributions and academic achievements are fully valued.
We hope he continues to excel.
balh de blah signed head teacher

I can see both sides too Piffle, and am truly sorry for your DS, and hope and pray that he does not become disaffected as a result. The letter from school does acknowledge how much they think of him though, and they are offering an open door to ease him back into school. Small comfort I should think, but it does show school is considering his feelings to an extent. Hope everything goes well when he returns to school tomorrow.

But quangle, why should piffle's son be disaffected by this? I think the school have actually done very well. They have acknowleged- even emphasised- that they feel Minipiffle is generally a very nice, well behaved young man and accepted that he did not bring his knife to school with violent or nasty intentions. But they have also said he did make a mistake. And it was not a technicality or an accident. He knew he had the knife, showed it to his friend on the way to school, brought it into the school, knowing that this was categorically against the school rules for reasons with which very few people would disagree. They have a blanket rule of exclusion for bringing a knife into school and therefore have to apply it.

I feel awful when I feel misunderstood. If the school were painting Minipiffle as a nasty knife wielding vicious meanie I could well understand why piffle and her son would be upset. But it seems to me they've been very clear that they actually think he's rather a sweetie who has acted like a bit of a wally on this occasion and, as his wallyish act could have had some serious consequences and is an absolute no-no school rules wise they've had to exclude him. So minipiffle isn't returning to a place where he's thought of as an evil pariah. He's going back to a school that clearly both values him as a person AND takes the safety of their students and staff seriously. That's all good in my book!

Can you imagine how well it would be accepted by a child if I were to say, 'You have broken a school rule and you must be punised, but this other person has been a better student than you, and so will break the same rule but I will let him off'

Let me tell you, you'd have a mini riot on your hands. The school must be even handed.

Re the BB gun, the kid had been visiting his dad for the weekend, didn't realise the gun was still in his sports bag? Unlikley, but them so is taking a craft knife into school by mistake.

And here ia a link to what happened to a girls face in school...this wasn't a weapon either, it was a pencil sharpener.

\link{http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/4361724.stm\this girl was 12, only a child as you say, and needed 30 stitches in her face}

I know that piffle's son would never have done anything like this in a million years, but some child in the school might have, and it is to prevent things like this happeneing that school need rules. 11 is young, but this girl was only 12....you have to start making rules somewhere.

piffle, an excellent letter...not surprise that your lad is a good'un, comes from a good mum

and they value him and his "many contributions and academic achievements" achievements so much they won't let him represent the school on Sunday in the quiz which he has worked towards for 7months?

I think more than anything its the quiz.
He feels like shit because, he know he has made a silly mistake the team will in all likelihood lose
The suspension he could not care less about, nor could I. It's lovely having him home, he is great company
It is very hard watching your child learn the lessons you had tried to impart to them, but they never listened
Maybe now change will abound within him...
I think he is made of enough stuff to come through this
Today bless him he has made a 20 step manga cartoon, illustrating what happened - where he could have acted differently he has cartooned two other scenarios about he he could have handled it better
His dad is going to get it professionally bound and give it to the school.
BTW he has used his other craft knife (held by me inbetween use) to do this cartoon.
At the end of the day I still have a great kid :)