TEmporarily excluded from secondary school

[Piffle]

DS yr 7was this morning excluded for an undetermined time
This morning he filled his blazer pockets with the contents of his pencil case as the puppy has chewed his case.
In that case was a craft knife he uses for manga cartoons
Someone saw it when he met up with his friends before school. DS was suddenly aware he had made a faux pas and ran to school and locked it in his locker.
One of the kids told the teachers.
DS is now home.
He is likely to be exckuded from the national quiz final he and his team mates have worked towards for 7 months, on sunday.
Paying for naivety
I'm swaying between it being bloody unfair and that the school have no choice
Either way my ds is destroyed.
As am I

In our school we have a very strict policy that anyone found in school with a knife/blade of any kind will be arrested by the police, escorted from the premises, charged (and have a fixed term exclusion from school). This has happened once in the last year - and to the most unlikely of suspects. Afaik that rule has not been broken or bent at all.

Tbh I would not feel happy working in a school with a different policy - and that's in an area where knife crime is extremely rare - unlike some parts of the UK.

I am very sympathetic to you and your son: having read many of your posts before I have no doubt at all that this was sheer naivety as you say. However, I would in this instance still back up the school. We have to take all steps necessary to keep weapons out of our schools, and possibly one of the strongest messages your school can put out to say that they will not tolerate weapons of any description in school for any reason, no matter who the person is, or what the reason given. So punishing your son is the logical consequence.

I hope my post makes sense, and you understand that I do understand how you feel.
I would be devastated if it were me.

I agree with roisin that sadly a punishment is necessary, buthope that he can somehow still be included in the competition. A very brief fixed term exclusion would reflect his naivety and previous good record whilst still sending out the clear message to the rest of the school community that knives are not to be tolerated in any way. I do feel sad that you are being left dangling. A clear policy which is always followed is the best thing in this sort of situation.

Oh Piffle, Your poor ds . I do hope it is all resolved soon and most importantly that your ds copes OK. It would be so awful if it turns him off school. I think a lenient approach would be appropriate and as it was a mistake, you should argue that he shouldn't be excluded from the quiz team.

So, is it just knives that carry this heavy penalty? What about scissors, or a pair of compasses? The compasses at least are essential for maths. Does the canteen have plastic cutlery?
I sympathise with people working in this situation but hate the developing culture of assuming the worst of young people. Especially when it is obvious that no harm was meant and he actually dealt with his mistake in a mature way, if not the best way.

We also have a school rule that any knife = fixed term exclusion. I know that it sounds harsh, but kids find it easier to accept an absolute rule, and teachers don't have to spend time arguing the toss about what is appropriate and what is not.

What would be unfair, I think is to say 'X we know you are a good chap, so we will not punish you, but Y, we know you to be a bad lad, and so you get a fixed term excusion' The kids would raise merry hell if you are not even handed.

I think the thing to discuss with him is that th pusnishment is for the behaviour, not the child IYSWIM. The staff will all know that he is a good kid, no grudges would be help, we all know that they can be (nice) little plonkers on times.

Sadly, with the knide culture that is running through the schools, and children and staff being knifed and killed by other children, schools have to draw a firm line. Apart from anything else a nice sensible kid could have a knife taken from him/her and that knife then misused.

Good point MB. I am convinced. But why exclusion? It carries such a stigma. When I was at school exclusion was rare as hen's teeth. Detention after school or a series of detentions was more than adequate. Probably more effective - more time in school instead of less!!

Children have also taken the blade out of a pencil sharpener, they could also beat each other over the head with sticks, but knife culture is rampant, and children have died as a result. As a teacher I also feel that I have a right to work in a place where knives are not being carried. And it is hard to slash someones face with a butter knife or a compass.

I know that in this case it was an art knife, but where I work a child was cut with a stanly knife. The student had 'forgotten' that he had it, and the cut was an accident.

ASDTs in our school are for rudeness, disobedience in the lesson, etc etc.

Fixed term exclusions are for things like telling the teacher to fuck off, carrying a knife, beating up another child, setting fire to part of the school, setting fire to a childs hair, pulling down a girls trousers in the playground (we are a secondary and the girl was totaly humiliated).....all of these are reall events that have happened over the last 18 months.

Can you see why we don't want knives thrown into the classroom culture?

I really sympathise to and would be gutted if it were my ds. Have you still not heard length of exclusion/full details of punishment?

Do I dare say I felt a bit shocked at your words against the new dep. head? "In other words, new Deputy Head (been there 5 weeks) flexing her muscles in her all male environment, " I just think it's quite an anti-women in the workplace thing to say? More likely she's trying to stamp her authority in a new school, sure, but hey, a man would be doing that too, wouldn't he?

Hope he can put it all behind him quickly. It's so easily done. My dh has a tiny swiss army knife as a key ring, and cos it's always tere he doesn't really notice it. He has quite a few times gone on a business trip and remembered at the last minute & quickly popped it into an envelope & posted it home. One time he didn't & got stopped with it, but luckily they let him post it home. Your ds didn't really have that option & is faced with scary repercussions. It is a shame. But I also see MB?s point of having to rigidly enforce the rule. Best wishes xxx

ps You say you & sh are not seeing eye to eye? What's his take on it then?

Piffle - have the school got back to you?
I've been thinking about you all evening.
What an awful situation for you all.

Much as I sympathise, I agree that if the rule says no knives, your ds has to have the same punishment as anyone else. By Y7 in grammar school, he should know what he's doing. Did you say you weren't up to help him pack? Can't say I always help dd pack, but there's no way I wouldn't be up for her at 6.45 every morning even when I've been up all night with no.4. Teachers can't be seen to let the good kids off I'm afraid - if his exclusion is over the time he should be doing the quiz, then he shouldn't go in my opinion (as a mum and teacher) - I can see it was an error, but Y7 in grammar school seems a bit old to be making such errors without facing the consequences. But then I am a hard-line old bat.

sorrz, my dh's tales of forgotten knife woes, I forgot to mention were at the airport. He's always remembered at check/in and posted it home.

Did you learn the exact punishment last night?

2 days exclusion which was yesterday and today
The irony of excluding a boy during the world cup was not lost on the head teacher :)
Ds is out of the quiz.
This stays on his record for one year.
DS owes the mistake to his chronic disorganisation, he has been self reliant on getting his school stuff together himself for 6 mths as it was wearing me out packing for him.
He has been great up til now, but has come to the stark realisation that he has to change his methods.

His teachers did come and make submissions in his defence, without being prompted which was really lovely to hear how much his teachers think of him, and tbh it has probably saved this whole affair in ds's eyes.
I do understand why a zero tolerance policy must be taken, why the message must be known that any knife cannot be allowed not for any reason.
DS is philosophical, resigned and relieved that it is not worse. He is still a little peeved that the primary reasn for the exclusion was that if the knife had gotten into the wrong hands. So he feels he has been punished for what someone else might have done.
He will be able to do the quiz again next year as a yr 8, he is now focussed on that - the school invited him to attend the quiz final as a supporter (its 80 miles away on sunday) he is not yet decided whether he can bear it.
Time to move on.

Piffle, I'm so sorry about this - poor DS - I understand completely the zero tolerance for blades in school and that it had to be done but how bloody unlucky for him but nice to hear the support from his teachers . It sounds like a very fair school, FWIW.

If I were him I couldn't go to watch the quiz!

I think he says he cannot go either, his face dropped when I mentioned it, he is back at school tomorrow so will gauge how his return goes before he makes up his mind.

What am I expected to do with him today? I cannot punish him, he has not work set. Technically he has not done anything wrong.
Am in between muttering shower of bastards and ok well i do see their point...

I agree with everything MB says, it makes perfect sense. So why am I still uneasy? I think my problem lies with the form of punishment - exclusion. Exclusion carries far too much baggage when he has actually done nothing wrong. And a week of after-school detentions would actually be more of a punishment.

At my ds's school lunchtime detentions are used for minor matters and after school for more serious. I don't know when exclusion kicks in.

I'd take him out somewhere nice for lunch - the point's been made now. He won't get any backlash from the teachers - they obviously understand the situation.

I think he's had more than enough punishment. I think it's very unfair that he has been unable to take part in the quiz. If his punishment was the exclusion and that ends today why is he out of the quiz for Sunday. Especially as he and the team have been working towards it for 7 months. If this is what happens to a hardworking decent lad when he makes a mistake I don't wonder half the kids give up and don't bother. What's the point if no-one listens to reason anymore.

I agree with juule- understand the punishment but not the exclusion from the quiz. On that basis I trust all those kids with exclusions are prevented from representing the school at sporting fixtures in the same way.

yes the sport teams are "punished" the same way
Infact this was where the problem lay with the school, they said kids are excluded from sporting events for less, without being suspended from school, so for him to represent the school the same week for being excluded for carrying a "weapon" (do not get me to repeat what I said after that)
I am very worried Juule about exactly what you say, having been issued the ultimate punishment for a naive mistake, how the heck is he supposed to equate that to someone excluded for spitting on a teacher (2 days exclusion also)
It does seem bizarre, I guess I'm going to have to put on my great parent guise and try to guide him through this without him ending up bitter and twisted.
I'm more worried about kids having a snide pop at him in the hope of inciting some kind of angered response.
But perhaps I am worrying unnecessarily.

I don't know your son's temperament, Piffle, but I would think this is now going to take time for your son to adjust to. He has now got the rest of the week until the quiz to listen to the team's excitement building and feel that all the hard work he put in over the last 7 months was a waste of time. Snatched away from him for a moment's lack of concentration. Not going to do a lot for his feelings of loyalty to the school I should imagind. We are all human. None of us are programmable robots that never make a mistake.
And after the quiz....he'll have to listen to that, too. And down the years, particularly if they win.
Just seems a bit much to me. You've got a job in diplomacy on your hands with this one, I think.

juuule and piffle, you have articulated perfectly what I was feeling and struggling to say. Spot on.

Another irony
Not to brag about my ds, but he is the team captain and the one who gets 70% of their questions
Without him they will struggle.
But thats life, then in turn I am worried he will be blamed by the other team members for letting the side down
Yes his adjustment time will be fraught, he will have to learn a whole new set of coping skills. I am going to ask his teachers to keep a special eye on him, he is very sensitive and finds even throwaway verbal comments hurtful
He has been bullied very badly in the past throughout primary school (broken arm, cracked nose humiliated etc) and has had such a happy start to being at this school.
I am hoping we can regain it
But yes he has very much a sod them attitude to representing the school again.
He is meant to be the yr 7 rep in the cambridge maths challenge, he now does not want to do it.
Arrghhhh

I'm speechless. Personally feel the school has completely mishandled this.