Gower school islington

[BeenieBaby]

Anyone have any experience of this school? We're keen on a Montessori education, but this school seems to have a bad rep, we weren't sure why... Anyone know firsthand what it's like?

OK, so that clarifies things somewhat.

You're not actually a teacher, you're a nursery nurse, and you have a grievance about your salary, which is between £14000 and £17000. You think you should be paid more for the hours you work, even though you are paid above market rate. You also have a grievance about that market rate and think that nursery workers should be paid more. That's a separate issue really, but you need to be realistic - nursery nurses are not doing highly skilled jobs, and when you consider that some solicitors earn in the region of £30000, £14000 to £17000 seems about right to me.

My question to you though is this: why did you accept your position at The Gower School in the first place if you did not like the salary that was on offer?

Did you (along with your workmates) hope to 'convince' Emma Gower to pay you more, and did you actively solicit the support of the parents in this quest?

I never said I wasn't a teacher and I never said I was a nursery nurse. I also never stated how much I was paid. What I'm saying is that people in retail earn more than £14,000. When you work all year round, have no flexibility in holidays and work 9 hours a day and are then sometimes asked if you would like to go on training courses on a Saturday then I assume you would hope to clear more than £700 a month. I also made the point that this is the average wage in TGS as EG may have a fraction of teachers with QTS, meaning she can still pay low wages.
To be honest my grievance has nothing to do with pay but much serious matters. I was merely using the pay as an example. You said yourself that nursery nurses isn't a highly skilled job. Well how would someone who wasn't highly skilled have the intelligence to overpower the management?
Like I mentioned my grievance wasn't with the salary. But I did accept the job on the assumption my salary would increase. I didn't hope to convince EG to pay me more and I have never had any outside contact or personal relationships with parents.

I don't believe you, Daisycake. If you had a genuine grievance, you would have followed your grievance procedure with the support of your union. You wouldn't be airing it on here. If you had a genuine concern about the welfare of the children at The Gower School, you would have brought it to the attention of the proper authorities or the parents (one would hope).

Your grievance is obviously about money.

The Gower School has been inspected by Ofsted (or ISI, same thing), and they haven't flagged up a lack of qualified teachers as a concern, so I don't believe that Emma Gower is deliberately recruiting unqualified teachers in order to pay less. I can believe that there are more nursery children than primary age children in the school, and so there are more nursery staff overall (adult child ratios are obviously higher with nursery children). It makes sense in that case that most staff members would be paid £14000 - £17000 as this is the market rate for nursery staff.

You are right that some people who work in retail earn more than £14000. But most people who work in childcare don't. Why don't you get a job in retail?

By the way, I didn't use the word 'overpower'. It's an indisputable fact however that teachers wield enormous power in independent schools, and they use this power to bully and intimidate, which is what you are doing by airing your grievance about money on this thread instead of following your grievance procedure. Makes sense though. After all, if you signed a contract agreeing to work for a salary of £14000 - £17000, it isn't likely that your grievance would be upheld, or even that your union would support you.

Edited to add:

Regarding the market rate for childcare workers, it's quite obvious to anyone who cares to think about it why this is the case.

A class of 9 primary school children requires one qualified teacher, who would be paid in the region of £30000. A group of 9 babies under the age of 2 years requires 3 nursery workers, who would collectively be paid in the region of £45000 (2 x £14000, 1 x £17000). The income for both is more or less the same. However, the teacher is solely responsible for the education and welfare of 9 children; the nursery worker is partly responsible for the welfare of 3 children.

It's not rocket science.

Once again please pay attention to what is said in the thread. No one at TGS is part of a union and unions do accept teachers who have existing issues.
My grievance was never about money, I used it as an example. If you actually read my previous comments then you would realise that that is not my concern.
The reason unqualified teachers haven't been flagged is due to the fact that in private schools they are not required to employ staff with QTS therefore EG is allowed to employ montessori teachers at low wages.
No you didn't use over power in fact what you said was worse. You accused staff if being corrupt, and holding management to ransom, if that is the case it is a really poor reflection on TGS staff and management.
Once again who said i signed a contract for £14.000-£17,000. And who said I still work in education?
You have ignored what I have said and made your own assumption.
You have completely diverted from the real issues involved, you have ignored the concerns raised and tried to focus on pay, which this thread is clearly not about.
You still haven't answered my question. How can an 'unskilled' nursery nurses have the intelligence to 'hold management to ransom'?

Also your last comment is completely invalid as the fees for younger children are a lot higher than primary children and they also require a lot more care than primary school children. Also the teacher who earns £30,000 does a lot less hours. Also do you really think EG pays any of her staff £35,000 haha.
It's not rocket science!

For someone who claims to have no connection to TGS, truthseeker2014 seems quite invested in its reputation and that of EG..

I was actually under the impression that teachers in private school are not usually part of unions? I gather parents who pay large fees to independent schools wouldn't be too keen for teachers to strike. But I'm not a professional in education tbh.

It generally isn't nursery workers holding schools to ransom, it's teachers. And they do it by telling lies to fee paying parents and turning them against the school (as per this thread).

I'm not sure that requires intelligence, per say. It requires a certain amount of cunning and a sense of invulnerability, I suppose - or at least a total belief in one's ability to get away with it. Like I say, they have way too much power. And power in the hands of people who think they are more intelligent than they actually are is never a good thing.

"I'm not sure that requires intelligence, per say. It requires a certain amount of cunning and a sense of invulnerability, I suppose - or at least a total belief in one's ability to get away with it. Like I say, they have way too much power. And power in the hands of people who think they are more intelligent than they actually are is never a good thing." tseeker2014 post sat 28-jun-14 20:31:50

"Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against unpleasant impulses by denying their existence in themselves, while attributing them to others.[1] For example, a person who is rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude." (Wikipedia)

projection; how it reveals the truth.

Well it's clear to me that the above poster with the aggressive name and the poor grasp of grammar is a teacher at an independent school.

To RustyParker - in more than 20 years of working in the independent sector, I have never met a teacher who is not a member of a union. Most teachers sign up with a union at the end of their training.

Truth seeker everyone's grammar and spelling on here isn't great including you and me, or should I say you and I. This is mainly because we're not paying too much attention to it. You are being very personal and that is not what this thread is about.
I have more that 10 years experience and I've only met one person who is part of a union in an independent school. We clearly have had different experiences. I also explained that the majority of staff from TGS have had no training and receive training at TGS, therefore they are not aware of unions. It's also an extra cost for staff on a low wage.
Regarding your post yesterday, to be cunning you must also have a degree of intelligence. If the staff were so cunning and control the management why wouldn't they demand a pay rise. You also say this is directed to teachers not nursery nurses. Maybe you should check the TGS staff list on their website to see how many staff actually have QTS.
I've mentioned before people have come on here to voice their concerns, not to create an arguement. Please stop being so personal.

This will be my last post on here, as I have no interest in getting into circular arguments with teachers.

I do not believe that the primary age children at The Gower School are taught by unqualified teachers, though it is possible that they are taught by teachers who were trained overseas, and therefore do not have QTS. I also do not believe that the teachers at The Gower School are not represented by unions, whether they have QTS or not. I do think it's likely that the majority of staff at The Gower School are nursery nurses, but as the majority of children at The Gower School are obviously of nursery age, this is unsurprising. It may be that the nursery staff are unrepresented by unions, but that does not preclude them from following the school's grievance procedure.

In any case, your grievance is clearly about money. And you are in a situation of your own making. If you did not want to work for the salary you were offered, you should not have accepted your position with The Gower School. Weekend training (which you indicate is optional), 9 hour days and inflexible holidays are a standard part of working in education and/or childcare. The 15+ weeks per year holiday provide ample compensation for that (though I accept that some - not all - staff at The Gower School may work year round).

My advice to you is this: the next time you are given a contract to sign, read it first. I very much doubt anyone that put a gun to your head when you agreed to work for £14000 to £17000 per year. Why complain about it now?

The reason this argument is going round in circles is because you are constantly repeating yourself!
You've once again tried to shift the real reason of this thread. My grievance is not related to money. I never signed a contract for £14,000-£,17,000. The staff DO NOT get 14 weeks holiday a year! And the staff are NOT part of a union.
You have highlighted that EG likes to employ staff from overseas, therefore at a cheaper wage. You can specifically see on the TGS website that les dauphins, les papillons, les hiboux, les aigles imperiaux and les aigles royaux do not have teachers with QTS. That's 5 classes that in a government school would require QTS. That information is directly from the TGS website, so if you don't believe me then believe them.
Your posts are all...... it is possible, maybe, it is likely. Well I know the facts as I have first hand experience. If you don't believe me please feel free to call EG and ask for the statistics. How many are part of a union? How many staff have QTS? What is the staff turnover rates? When you get your answers I'm sure we'll never hear from you again.

Interested to read about a vegetarian school. New one on me,

As for why the staff turnover rate is 'huge' at The Gower School, I would hazard a guess that staff leave before disciplinary procedures are instigated against them. That's what normally happens in these schools, and I have seen it happen many times.

If that were really true, it would demonstrate staggeringly incompetent recruitment practices on the part of the school, and indeed all the other schools that truthseeker seems to have encountered.

Also, I'm enjoying here the fact that someone who accuses others of having a poor grasp of grammar wrote "I'm not sure that requires intelligence, per say".

As a current parent I would like to see this thread stop. Please give the current parents a breathing space to raise any legitimate concerns with the school.

I entirely agree with louerthanalion - what is in this for all you ex-parents and ex-teachers - whilst I don't seek to belittle any of your experiences, you have aired your points so please now move on and leave these issues for those with a current stake in the school. It really worries me that you are trying to destroy a school where my son is very happy.

And please don't insult me by alleging that I am EG, her husband, her parents, her cat or any other person connected to her!

I was going to say exactly the same thing.

It is very unpleasant to read all the comments made about the school when you have children there.

Please let the school and the parents get on with it now.

Our two children have been at TGS since starting nursery, and are now at TGS primary.

We have had nothing but positive experiences with TGS. Our children are very happy there, as are we with the staff and schools (and quality of the vegetarian food – which is a plus when you consider where some of the meat might have come from in non-vegetarian schools of late!) We looked at other options (for both nursery and primary) but haven’t found anything equal to the level of quality in education, environment and overall care that TGS offers.

I am not a teacher (nor am I EG, or related to her in any way) - but I think it’s worth saying that a Montessori approach probably isn’t right for all children. Some children will learn better in a child-led environment; other children need a structured environment (which Montessori is not).

I have many friends who wouldn’t consider sending their children to a Montessori school because their children, in that environment, won’t thrive. It doesn't take an educator to know that children who are demotivated are probably more likely to experience problems and in turn possibly be labeled as “problem children” - rightly or wrongly – if they are not in a learning environment that best matches their learning needs and temperament.

A lot of the thread seems to be personal attacks on EG, which is unfortunate and says more about the people doing the posting that about EG. Our experience is that she is a fine educator, who is clearly passionate about learning and seems to really care for the children – she has proven this to us time and time again.

Would we like to be more involved as parents? Yes. Not all parents would though - and not all parents have the time to be more involved, either. EG is aware of this and I expect / hope that she will be looking into providing a platform and forum to harness the energies of parents who do want to be involved.

We are not trying to take anything away from the people on this thread who have clearly had a negative experience at TGS, and are very sorry for any family who has a difficult time with their chosen school (TGS or otherwise). I sincerely hope that you have since found schools for your children where they, and in turn you, can be happy.

Ex-TGS teachers – all the best in your future efforts and a big THANK YOU for all you have contributed to our children’s introduction in education. :-)

From two parents with children happily progressing at TGS, we would very much appreciate if this thread could wind down now.

For any prospective parents, we’d really encourage you to visit the nursery/primary, speak with EG, and any of the families that have chosen to keep their children there… it’s a great school and you shouldn’t let this unpleasant thread put you off considering TGS.

Truthseeker I have no teaching qualification and have "taught" at tgs.

I have many other things to add and will do so more fully. I worked at the school a few years ago and am staggered that the same old issues are still there. I don't think that the changes current parents are optimistically hoping for and expecting will happen as they are exactly the same as what was hoped for 5+ years ago.

So who are you then, susiebee46? What's your real name?

If you've got a real grievance that will stand up to public scrutiny, own it. Be honest and tell everyone who you are and what your grievance is.

No?

Then stop making histrionic innuendos on the internet.

Wow, aggressive response truthseeker. Could say the same to you. What's your vested interest in TGS/ Emma Gowers?

I was stating a fact to help clarify the debate you have been having with previous posters.

When I worked at the school there were a number of the same problems that have been voiced on this thread e.g staff and pupil turn over, meals, lack of outside space, confusion around Montessori vs more of a prep style school, no PTA, miserable staff, school run as business not a school etc, E.G bullying staff and parents, pervasive my way or the highway attitude etc

I felt the need to post as I wanted to point out that the same problems have existed for a long time, and it seems unlikely there will be any change.

It makes me sad as the school has the potential to be wonderful, where children are encouraged to be individual, creative, strive to work hard etc. I had some of the best and worst experiences of my career at the school, as previous posters have said it really is very polarising.

Wow! This thread is appalling
I have no axe to grind, no children at this school but children at prep school elsewhere. I feel very sorry for the parents who have to put up with this sort of misinformation. If this were a school my kids were at I'd be exceedingly concerned and I'd be wanting to move them. Why would you pay £15k pay for this sort of nonsense (my guess, based on what I pay for an excellent prep)

truthseeker, you really don't get to demand that others give their real names when you are not posting under yours.