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Gower school islington

563 replies

BeenieBaby · 25/08/2013 09:48

Anyone have any experience of this school? We're keen on a Montessori education, but this school seems to have a bad rep, we weren't sure why... Anyone know firsthand what it's like?

OP posts:
scandimania · 08/06/2014 20:53

I think the principal is on dangerous ground. It is clear to everyone that there is a lot of dissatisfaction and however powerful one is, one is not immune. Even owning the school does not make you immune as reputation and gossip are powerful influences. Many of us genuinely love TGS and have watched our children thrive in its nurturing environment. But teacher satisfaction and motivation is absolutely key for our children to get the attention and dedication they need, and if the issues are not dealt with properly, then this will be the downfall. Staff and teachers need respect and authority and to feel that they are valued. I know that many staff feel undervalued, disrespected, patronized, and live in an environment of fear (as attested to above). These teachers need promotions, pay rises, and praise. They do an amazing job - there would be no TGS and no positive recommendations about the school if it were not for the teachers. I love the school but I am always saddened by the sense of rank and hierarchy that exists there for the staff and I think they deserve better. I very much hope that the principal comes to realise that she needs a radical change of approach if she is to come through this rocky patch.

Lab67 · 08/06/2014 21:43

I am new to mums net and have joined due to increasing concerns about some of these posts.

My child is in year 1 at the school and loves it. He has a lovely key teacher and I have no issues about the teaching or his progress.

I am no apologist for the head. I don't agree with some of her decisions and I am concerned with some of the posts about staff turnover and morale.

But what appalls me is the vitriol of some of the repeat posters. This forum is supposed to be about making parents lives' easier and giving moral support. This thread is just a sustained attack on the head and the school and anyone who posts a contrary view is jumped on.

I am sorry that some of you have had bad experiences at the school but some of these comments have got out of hand and it feels like hounding from people who are very bitter. You all seem to have moved on and found new schools so perhaps you should concentrate on that instead.

I have no motivation for posting this other than a desire not to see the school my son is very happy at being destroyed. I hope some other parents will agree with me and Emma when you read this please do think again about having some form of parental representation. You have some very talented parents at the school who want it to succeed.

Awgd · 08/06/2014 22:37

Our son is at The Gower School and our experience has been very positive. We are very pleased with his academic progress and he is extremely happy at the school. The environment is warm and inclusive; in our experience, it fosters independence and the pupils are engaged and self-assured. The teaching is very much oriented to our son's individual needs and we have found it highly effective as result. We have never had any problems in terms of communication with the school. The issues discussed on this thread do not accord with our experience in any way. We are very happy with the school and do not hesitate to recommend it.

WG67 · 08/06/2014 22:52

Again, it is wonderful that you have had positive experiences this means you and your family are liked by the head. God forbid, however, you are not liked. You will be pushed out and discredited without a second thought.

letSlipTheDogsOfWAR · 08/06/2014 22:59

What is very interesting about this thread is that it highlights the extremely polarised experiences people encounter at TGS.

Many have fine or happy experiences; many have the stuff of nightmares.

This, all by itself, is reason to wonder, to question, to doubt, to pry.

TupperwareQueen · 09/06/2014 02:39

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10purplepansies · 09/06/2014 07:41

Mercymeee sadly you may be right as anyone who has been subject to any of the above would have got themselves out as fast as they could and sadly will not get the chance to fill out the questionnaire. When I left the school, it took me a long time to get my confidence back which was shattered. I suffered with anxiety and palpitations and I started to believe those things that had been said to me. So when you talk about crazy rantings, I find it very disrespectful as you have obviously and thankfully not been through such an experience. A very Goweresque attitude to put anyone down who does not conform and write them off as crazy. When it comes to ethics. There is a clear right and wrong.

Mercymeee · 09/06/2014 08:44

10purplepansies I wasn't putting anyone down - especially not any of the many who have suffered at this school. My heart really goes out to you that my intention wasn't clear. xx I was being sarcastic. I should have used a little smiley or something as tone of voice is very hard to convey online. My apologies to you that I didn't make this clear. I have the utmost empathy for what you've gone through.

letSlipTheDogsOfWAR · 09/06/2014 10:11

calling on all people with reason;
happy parents, aggrieved parents, parents with some small concerns, those with none, those presently experiencing fear, paranoia, shame, sadness, those delighted parents whose children quiver with glee, those who do not want to know anything but their own child's progress and happiness, those who want a PTA and Board of Governors, those who are genuinely fond of Ms Gowers and are hurt by this debate, those who feel not much and just get on with it, those who want a harmonious, safe and respectful school - PLEASE.....

look at this thread; the well of emotion.
see and feel it.

it's a shambles - the to-ing and fro-ing.
the heart ringing from both sides of this discussion.

but the debate is clear, as a bell.

it is raw. angry at times. but there is no vitriol. NONE.

this debate must be noted and set down.

surely, surely we must all agree

  • those who entirely endorse TGS and support it and those wanting to reveal the grief/rage/disbelief that they and/or their children suffered - for alas, that is what it is, where our children are concerned, make no bones about it; as well as those teachers with genuine concern and grievance about their workplace or the children in their care
  • that it is not NORMAL or indeed DESIRED, let's say, to have so many conflicting voices, such extreme difference of experience, such diversity of opinion, such inconsistency of encounter, such deep rooted desire and need (animal almost) to REVEAL stuff; or on the other side to PROTECT stuff. ABOUT WHAT?

A CHILDREN"S SCHOOL?

This thread should not exist because this debate should not exist.

No School should ever have to be under such scrutiny.

That it is, is the point.

Surely we can all agree with this?

Toomanyhouseguests · 09/06/2014 10:21

letslip Confused

letSlipTheDogsOfWAR · 09/06/2014 10:30

Toomanyhouseguests;

sorry! Am I not clear?

Senga80 · 09/06/2014 11:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Daisycake85 · 09/06/2014 12:10

This reply has been deleted

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10purplepansies · 09/06/2014 12:32

I find it very strange that any parents - no matter how happy they and their child are with the school would be able to disgregard the worrying consistency of individuals experiences. They are serious issues that no parents could disregard if that had not been put up to it by team Gower as you say Daisycakes. No matter how happy I was, I would be seriously concerned with the experiences and greviences shared and for my child's well being there is no way I would be able to breeze over it. How about looking into it just to be sure. I would be very suspicious of so many people with the same story and experiences. Wouldn't you?

Thank you Mercymee. My misunderstanding.

louderthanalion · 09/06/2014 12:43

Think it may possibly be helpful to do a quick recap of where we are, bearing in mind now 260+ posts.

Thread started in the ordinary way with parents seeking feedback on the School, then took a turn as a number of ex-staff members resurrected it to post details of grievances they had. The School sought to have these taken down, which then led others to comment

Recurring themes:

  • Staff turnover at TGS seems high (although no-one has provided figures for any London average, so we do not have a clear idea of HOW high), and there is concern that this is indicative of a hostile underlying working environment, pay and conditions that are not conducive to staff retention;
  • Parent / child experiences at the School are very variable; it is said to be dependent on whether the Head likes you and your child - or not. Some families complain of negative treatment and low tolerance of boisterous children or children with SEN. These families, unsurprisingly, seem to have removed their children from the School. Other parents (me included and NB: I am not EG in disguise Smile!) have not witnessed anything of this nature. Their children seem to be making good progress and are very happy at The Gower, and so they are bemused by the negative comments;
  • There is concern about the governance arrangements and lack of any of the usual mechanisms for parents to be involved in the running of a School (PTA, Governing body). Many people appear to share these, whether otherwise happy with the School or not;
  • Various other concerns have been expressed - e.g. the rearranging of classes annually; the School seems claustrophic because of a cramped physical environment; the food - but the above seem to be the real biggies.

There is an ISI inspection ongoing at the moment. Parents were asked to fill in a questionnaire. However, from some of the comments made, it seems that the ISIs findings are only likely to satisfy some posters if they support the criticisms - if, on the other hand, they are positive about the School, they may be dismissed as being made by people the Head personally knows or as failing to penetrate what is going on behind the scenes. So it seems unlikely a glowing ISI report will put matters to rest.

What I would like to say to those who have posted repeatedly on this thread is - what do you want? What are you seeking to achieve by your comments? Especially, if your child is no longer at the School?

I know what I want - and what I do not want. I want TGS to learn from this unhappy experience, so far as learning is needed, move on from this and flourish. Principally, it seems to me what is needed is an appreciation that the governance arrangements appropriate for a successful nursery do not apply perhaps so successfully to a School, and there is a need for the voices of parents and staff better to be heard - and listened to, so that people feel that their views have been respected even if not always agreed with. Emma Gowers is right, in my view, when she comments that The information in the postings on this has been hurtful both to [her], [the] staff team and the school community to read. The School needs to reflect on how going forward whether there is anything it can do to channel dissenting voices into a more appropriate forum than a social network.

I do not want the School to fail or dwindle. I think that would be a terrible shame, not only for the children currently at the School. TGS really does offer something different. I do not know how pure its version of the Montessori learning approach is or how far TGS has to modify it to satisfy a parent body, which is at the same time concerned about leavers destinations in the competitive world of independent and selective London schools.

What I do know is that it is extremely successful in my experience in, through applying Montessori principles, developing children who, as Awgd has said, are engaged, self-assured, with teaching very much orientated to individual needs. The breadth of the curriculum means that children really are learning for life.

Personally, I believe that introducing children to some competition and requiring high standards of appearance and behaviour are important, particularly for a School situated in central London, and reflective of the educational and work environments that many of the children will ultimately move on to. I feel that TGS manages this very well, and there is none of the rampant, tight-lipped competition among parents and children that occurs at some independent schools.

We chose TGS for our child because DC is a gentle soul, and needed care and nurture. At The Gower School, I have witnessed all that I had hoped being achieved - and more. Our child has come a long way since being described by a nursery key worker (non-Gower) as a sad and lonely person, and is now lively, confident, thriving academically and socially, and has gained the self-belief actually to start to put themselves forward. I am so pleased. A lot of credit must go to the staff team, but I also think much credit is due to the School for building in the opportunities for this to happen.

Whilst I am not disregarding the serious issues raised by this thread - but indeed are very worried by them - I do not want to have to uproot my child, put them through a competitive assessment process for an all-age school or have them move to another primary school mid-way through their primary career, with all the disruption socially and academically that will involve, when they are currently very happy, settled and doing well.

I note what SDT85 has said about her son now being welcomed at a prominent London school. I am pleased for SDT85 and her DC. However, at the same time, I would ask you to recognise that not all children at TGS will be so fortunate if they have to move on and this is really the last thing that many families want to have to contemplate.

Daisycake85 · 09/06/2014 13:16

Louderthanalion, you have a very good point. You ask what we want to achieve, well I ask my self the same question and I think the answer is an apology.
I am not on here to close down and discredit a school I am on here for closure. Like I have mentioned before, all I want is EG to hold her hands up to her mistakes, apologise and work on them. Instead she continues to cover up her mistakes and discredit anyone who gets in her way.
The Gower school could be a great environment if parents and staffs comments were taken into consideration.

As an ex member of staff I can't even begin to tell you the things I know. 10purplepsnsies comments on her anxiety and panic attacks, I also know another member of staff who has been affected in the same way. Please respect what we have been through, I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

You say you want TGS to learn from this experience, well I agree, but it's clear from the response EG gave that she is willing to take no culpability and is not willing to improve as she sees no problem.

I can tell you staff turnover is HUGE, without even looking at statistics.

You also mention that staff are hurt by these comments, like I previously said I was directed here by a current member of staff. We can all put on a poker face. Regardless whether you think staff are happy, I can guarantee they're not. Over the three years I worked in TGS, I never met one happy member of staff. If they were happy why did they point me in the direction of this thread? I knew many who did a trial day and never returned, they were the intelligent ones.

In all my posts I wasn't negative until EG produced her displeasing comment. Her response was hurtful to all who have experienced her first hand.

Daisycake85 · 09/06/2014 13:25

May I also add. This thread is not directed on the practice of current members of staff! This thread is directed at EG's behaviour and responses.
I know EG will probably have made current staff to feel that this thread is directed at them. A tactic to ensure that current staff will discredit this thread and feel like they are to blame!
I've experienced those dreaded 'training' days, and this has probably been brought up.
Like I've said this is not directed at the staff, so don't feel in any way that you are to blame for EG mistakes. You all know what I'm talking about, we've all experienced it!

louderthanalion · 09/06/2014 13:39

Thank you Daisycake 85 for your response.

I do indeed respect the staff experience of the School. I am very worried and disturbed by all the departures, which seem to me to be (from my dim and distant recollection of my own School days) to be extraordinarily high, but of course I have no experience of the contemporary job market in London schools. As I said in a previous post, it is not a great thought that the staff whom you see on a daily basis putting so much effort into educating and caring for your child may actually be miserable in their job and putting on a brave face.

Does the School do exit interviews of staff? If so, is this a practice which could be suggested and might be helpful? Or the School going for a HR benchmarking award like Investors in people?

I am waiting to see what response Emma Gowers will give to all this away from an Internet forum.

PS: In my comment above, I referred to SDT85 as "she". SDT85, I do apologise for "gendering" you.

Daisycake85 · 09/06/2014 13:49

No there are no exit interviews. But if there were, the only person looking at them would be EG.
When I gave in my resignation, I was not let go and I wasn't politely asked to leave, it was my choice. There was no mention of me in the newsletter and many parents had no idea id left as no one was informed, except the parents of my key children.
TGS don't appreciate resignations. I remember Kelly Shawyer receiving 3 resignations in one week. After handing it in, you are automatically treated as a traitor.

There are many bad points to the TGS but all I want is these issues to be highlighted and improved. I'm not asking parents to pull their children out of the school, I'm just asking EG to take some culpability and apologise.
EG always said 'if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys' this was not a nice thing to say about her staff.

NK5d8817cbX125174745ed · 09/06/2014 13:50

@ louderthanalion.

you state that:

  1. Staff turnover at TGS seems high.

I can tell you that for the time that we have been there and compared to other schools were other friends are, the turnover does not SEEM high. It IS high. you don't need statistic for London or the UK. Just look around.

  1. Parent / child experiences at the School are very variable; it is said to be dependent on whether the Head likes you and your child - or not.

This statement does need my comment really but anyway I would like to ask you if you know another school applying these kind of "methods" in evaluating children.

  1. There is concern about the governance arrangements.

Only a concern? I would say that this amounts to an extreme worrying practice. Do you know other schools in London (with the same amount of fees) where parents' and teachers' suggestions are simply dismissed? I am not even talking about a PTA or a board a simple forum of discussions would be a good start.

Don't you think that it may be considered at least selfish not appreciating what is happening all around you to other parents, children and entire staff team?

Don't you ask yourself why other schools do not cause such amount of "vitriol"?

Don't you care about the way teachers are treated at TGS?

Do you think that it is just good enough to put the head in the sand and forget about it?

Well think again...please.

evamariesaint · 09/06/2014 14:13

louderthanalion

The moving of ones child is one of the hardest things in the world to consider.

Your posts are thoughtful and concerned for both parents and teachers and I thank you for them.

louderthanalion · 09/06/2014 14:19

Thank you Daisycake85 for that further information and for your clarification as to what you think TGS could do to address things.

NK5 - that is just nasty. I am a parent with a child currently at the School. My child has had issues with their confidence in the past - which the TGS has done much to address - and is not one to transfer with ease to a new School environment. I am, and have said I am, concerned about the comments that have been made about the treatment of the staff. I have no way of fairly evaluating the bad experiences of the School by other parents - although I take what has been said very seriously. I am not wilfully burying my head in the sand and I certainly do care about what is being said about my DC's School.

The point I made above - and answered so far as it relates to myself - is what are you seeking to achieve from your postings on this thread?

What do you want to see happening going forward?

Are you simply posting for catharsis? To get your own back on the School? Or, like Daisycake85 do you want the School to do something constructive?

Can you please clarify since the impression (which may be a misunderstanding) conveyed by some of the comments by recurrent posters is that the aim may be to cause as much reputational damage to TGS as possible. As a current parent with a young child at the school, you will understand that to me does not look very impressive.

NK5d8817cbX125174745ed · 09/06/2014 14:43

louderthanalion: I am sorry if my post sounded nasty. It wasn't intended that way.

I am not posting (as I am sure all the other posters on this thread) to damage TGS reputation. Many of us have children who are still there, many of us are staff members who are still there, many of us are simply worried about the status quo of the school.

In answering to your question, I am posting because I want to denounce a practice that seems unfair and because I believe that denouncing such unfair practice may force the school to address the concerns that have been raised by parents and teachers. Being these concerns: the lack of a PTA, the lack of a board, the lack of accountability of the head teacher and most importantly the unequal treatment of people (being teachers, parents and children).

As simple as that. Again, I am sorry if it sounded nasty. It did not want to be.

Mercymeee · 09/06/2014 15:17

louderthanalion Thank you for your balanced and very well considered post. I appreciate it so much. These are very emotive issues, desperately emotive for some and I can really hear the outrage and pain in NKs response to you. Many people on this thread, myself included, will be able to relate to that very raw place that NKs response comes from.

Like NK we too are leaving. It was largely this thread that gave us the courage and confidence to start looking around for something that was better for us. A very hard process to go through. But we found places easily at a school that immediately felt 110% right - for the whole family.

I sincerely hope that this thread does not go the way of so many other mumsnet threads and descend into in-fighting. For those of us still at the school, we are a very small community. We see each other twice a day at the school gates. We hang out with each other at birthday parties. We buy each other coffees on Friday morning. We organise playdates and sleepovers and parties for the children. And for the most part people seem to like each other. (Well, at least I generally like the other parents.)

What we all have in common is wanting the best for our children. You are right to call for some kind of positive way of moving forward. This debate should not be one that polarises parents against each other. It should be one that unites them to create something better for the children and for the school.

What would make the situation better for those aggrieved? What would make the school a better place for our children?

For myself there is an issue of accountability. I didn't realise until I read this thread and started looking at other schools how unusual it is for an independent school to have no PTA or Board of Governors. Those two things would be a huge positive change.

In my opinion, with these two things in place the principal would have the support she needs to remedy the many other serious and worrying concerns.

louderthanalion · 09/06/2014 15:18

NK5 - thank you for your apology. I totally get where you are coming from, trying to call the School on practices that seem unfair.

However, I just wonder - after 270+ postings - that what might perhaps move this thread on is less comments along the lines that Emma Gowers is the living and breathing embodiment of Miss Trunchbull and more what the School could do - if it should choose to do so - to try to address the dissatisfaction.

Some alternative forum for parents to vent is an obvious one, and a method of looking at the concerns raised by the staff members.

Daisycake85 said above that there are no staff exit interviews and, if there were, they would only be looked at by the Headteacher. However, in my sector our regulator asks for exit interviews and an analysis by the business of themes arising from them and if action is needed to address them. Does anyone know what the Schools Inspectorate does here?