Extra time in exams - rules changing?

[Sunhasgothishaton]

I've been told that getting extra time in exams is changing in September, and it will be a lot harder/tighter to get extra time.

My ds has dyslexia and has extra time. I was told unless he scores less than 85 on any of the standard scores he won't get the extra time but he scored 92.

Does anyone have any advice/info on this?

CResident,
I do understand the point you are making- I do think you make a case.

Its true there is no easy answer.

But my overarching case, based on colleague reports and my own experience is that thresholds are so low, support is diluted and schools disrupted.

So any attempts to lower numbers is a step in the right direction.

Now I get that in your case you feel this 'sweeping approach' has resulted in indirect discrimination to your child.

But you know as well as I that there are many parents would argue their 'less able' child should get this support/advantage too.

Your argument that your child should get it over and above theirs is based upon a certain measurement- the 'discrepancy'. And thats persuasive up to a point, but there are alternative models for threshold that produce a different ranking order for those applying.

So lets say I was EdSec and said right!- we use a discrepancy formula and we take the most deserving 5%- I would have a different set of angry parents vying for my blood. Do you see the problem? they would also have plausible claims for discrimination.

In a really fair world we would adjust exam scores for birthdate, post code of home address, dispraxia, dyslexia, combined parental income, gender, school OFSTED rating, ethnicity and many other factors.

and that this adjustment would be PROPORTIONAL to the degree of discrepancy or factor.

It would mean every single kid in the uk would do an exam of different length and have different grade boundaries.

this is not an argument to dismiss all AA you understand (or to deny the dyslexia issue) - Im trying to explain why many parents, teachers and children will always legitimately disagree with whatever AA/support system is in place.

CResident-
Well Im sorry a teacher insulted your brother like that.

But I have never done that, and if I had ever witnessed a fellow teacher doing so I would have reported them pronto.

ukjess the spikiness in the scores for a pupil who has a SpLD is not an approach to measuring disability, it is the approach used by Ed Psychs and universities to arrive at a diagnosis and determine how the playing field should be leveled. Ofqual have not opted for another approach, they have departed completely from the Science and the whole principle of levelling the playing field, and they have done it to pander to a view that too many pupils are getting extra time which is not based on any firm evidence, a view that is not supported by rigourous scientific evidence is a prejudice and pandering to it is politics. The Scientists are seething. I don't doubt that at some point if the exam boards are not behind the scenes sticking to the old rules a parent like the ones who are represented here will take Ofqual to court and will be able to win based on expert evidence.

I would have no problem if the regulations had been improved in line with expert advice and sound evidence. I don't doubt the old rules were woolly and ambiguous and needed better definition and I take your point about resources but, once again, these changes have no sound educational or scientific basis and the experts are furious.

I dont agree that the threshold is too high. A qualifying score of less than 85 in a standardised test equates to 14th percentile. Children have to fall within that range to qualify for the access arrangement in the majority of cases.

Of course where the DofE has chosen one approach amongst many scientifically valid approaches is in teaching and assessment. People with SpLDs don't actually have learning "difficulties", they have learning differences. It is just that the current approaches used to teaching eg look / see and assessment, a terminal exam with time limits imposed, do not suit their learning style or the way in which they can best demonstrate their ability. What society is interested in is people being educated to achieve their potential and in turn contribute to society according to their potential, and from the exam system they want an indication of a person's ability, motivation, knowledge and skills. That is why universities aim to level the playing field and use different, more inclusive, approaches to teaching and assessment. The DofE is badly at odds with the rest of the educational establishment and other successful education systems globally in that regard.

Absolutely agree with that post copthall

CResident,
I just googled some sites on the subject of 'diagnosing learning disabilities'. The 1st 5 sites all say that different models get different results and that the experts have yet to reach consensus in the uk and usa.

And the trouble with a lot of experts is that often they can also be guilty of infusing a bit of politics into their own research. For more info go to the TES forums for that hot potato...

I suppose a parent could try and take them to court but if they won it would open the flood gates to everyone who ever got denied AA or similar. They would easily find an expert witness to justify their claim.

Gosh- the more I read about it I feel like saying give everyone an extra 30% and have done with it. And if a kid finishes early let them leave the exam early. And give the 'top 15% spikey kids" a no-penalty clause on SPAG.

Not sure whether my experiences are relevant or not. I'm the (adoptive) mum to a 16yo dd with a statement for BESD. She is of average intelligence and attainment (L6 at the end of y9). She does have some visual processing difficulties which means she is weaker at maths but academically has no major difficulties. Because she has a statement, she is automatically entitled to 25% extra time without having to jump through any extra hoops. I have just asked her and she used her extra time in only one of her gcse exams - the skills test in geography (the exam where she was disadvantaged by her visual processing difficulties). I guess my point is that for most kids - no matter where they lie on the intelligence spectrum, gcse exams give ample amounts of time for finishing (unlike KS2 tests - I'm also a Y6 teacher), so extra time will only advantage students who clearly need it...it is pretty irrelevant for everyone else. My dd also used a wp which she did find useful. She is a fast typer but this just meant that as there is only a finite amount to write (for her) she finished her exams quickly...

Not going to argue with random googling with no evaluation or possibility of evaluating the sources, i am a historian after all, so I will stick with the advice of the ed Psych and Dyslexia charities. Funny though that UCL, university ranked 4th in the world on some rankings, makes it very simple "At UCL, the amount of extra time granted relates to the severity of the current effects of your dyslexia on the speed and accuracy of your reading and writing. The exam arrangements assessment takes about one hour and generates eight measures of performance (four relate to reading and four to writing). The amount of extra time granted ranges from five to twenty minutes per hour ? and may differ from the provision you may have received previously. If you have handwriting difficulties, measures of proficiency in typing are also taken and, if appropriate, you may be granted permission to use a PC in exams. After the short assessment you will have the opportunity to discuss your wider support needs (such as tuition in study skills). Extended library borrowing time will be arranged and you will be given stickers to attach to your course work to alert markers that you are dyslexic. The stickers refer your markers to the UCL guidance for assessing the work of students with specific learning difficulties [link to guidance]. Your assessor will liaise with the Examination Section regarding your exam arrangements and you will be asked if you agree for us to inform your course administrator about the outcome of the assessment."

And here is what Oxford uses www.ox.ac.uk/media/global/wwwoxacuk/localsites/studentgateway/documents/disabilityadvisoryservice/Guidance_on_SpLD_Diagnostic_Assessments_August_2012.pdf

And Cambridge www.admin.cam.ac.uk/univ/disability/students/exam.html

Etc etc etc

I think a change is due. I have heard people complaining about the unfairness of people getting extra times in exams. Of course there are cases when extra time is appropriate but I think the rules should be much tighter.

And I'd like to see a swing away from course work. A massively unfair way of making a judgement on a child's ability or knowledge. Help given at home varies too much for this to be in any way a fair assessment for a major part of any course.

Many 'experienced teachers' are extremely skeptical about dyslexia and moreso about dyspraxia. I have met many who do not 'believe' in one or both conditions (if it's just one they don't 'believe' in, it'll be dyspraxia every time). Many 'experienced' teachers haven't even heard of dyspraxia.

Oh ARSE. The bloody iPad 'corrected' sCeptical to the american misspelling. How embarrassing (in a professional sense). I've written books about scepticism. I've lectured about it on several continents. I do know how to spell it. And my iPad bloody well should as well.

russians I gather the amount of time given during teacher training to SpLDs is derisory, let alone to inclusive teaching methods (in contrast to universities which actively encourage staff to gain an understanding of SpLDs eg www.equality.leeds.ac.uk/disabled-students/disability/students-with-dyspraxia/and how to make their teaching inclusive www.sheffield.ac.uk/polopoly_fs/1.18989!/file/The-inclusive-learning-and-teaching-handbook.pdf) even though those methods are often actually of benefit to all pupils.

vivienne Iam sorry but educational strategy should not be dictated by what people "think is unfair", it should be dictated by what the scientific evidence shows to be unfair, and for many pupils with SpLDs such as Dyslexia and Dyspraxia, the evidence is that they are at an unfair disadvantage in timed examinations because of problems with processing working memory, coordination etc which slow them down and make them vulnerable to making silly errors. Extra time doesn't give them an unfair advantage, it gives them time to read the question more thoroughly, get their thoughts down on paper and check their work thoroughly to compensate for the problems they experience in showing what they are capable of in a timed examination. Other measures are similarly designed to reduce the unfairness of the assessment methods for pupils with disabilities. It is about eliminating unfairness, it is not unfair.

www1.aston.ac.uk/current-students/hub/danu/staff-resources/marking-the-written-work-of-students-with-dyslexia/

Guidance from Aston University on marking the written work of students with Dyslexia. Nearly fell off my chair when I read this. Could you imagine this kind of guidance at Junior or Secondary?

In fairness, Secondary school has been way way better than Junior where bright DS was placed on bottom table.

kitchendiner I didn't post similar guidance from other universities as it tends to be on the staff intranet but I think it is very common, and my DD, DN and I have all experienced that it is not all talk, that staff really do have a much better awareness and a willingness to adapt teaching methods and marking to the needs of their students. I gather not all universities match best practise but a lot do. People with SpLDs tend to fly once they get to university in any case. It is all about the quality of their ideas and thinking, and they have already coped with adversity. The quality of assessment and support is way beyond what you find in most schools.

Dear CResident re:17:41.

Its been a few years since I have been in the classroom, so I don't benefit from internal inset but I am friends with current primary and secondary school teachers. They say the SENCOs get good training and usually get opportunities to disseminating good practice.

I have no idea about the current quality of BEds and PGCEs etc but imagine SEN and spectrum issues must be addressed to a reasonable degree...

As regards the issue of 'consensus' the following excerpt matches what I have been told by SENCOs:

"Parents navigating the learning disability diagnosis process may find a bewildering range of testing methods, theories of learning, and labels awaiting them. To make matters more confusing for parents, there are different diagnostic systems out there that involve different ways of making diagnostic decisions. Learning disability diagnosis is an inexact science. Some experts disagree on the best ways of determining whether a learning disability exists." (About.com)

You can probably imagine that a particular parent is likely to gravitate to whatever system advantages their child.

In any case perhaps a model could be a very generous time allowance in the 1st place followed by an additional 'voluntary' 30mins (or whatever). If the student doesnt want it they leave- if they do, they stay.

That may appease 'combative parents' and relieve the burden on assessors and the creaking system too.

I don't think that I have encountered any of these "combative parents" although I don't doubt their existence. It cannot be healthy to foist a non existent learning disability on their children - surely the children themselves would resist. I think that for many children, there is a stigma attached to having learning disabilities. Most parents are struggling to get their children's difficulties recognised and supported. "Gravitating to whatever system advantages their child" is surely gravitating towards the system that enables their child to overcome their difficulties and show their potential. For every one "combative parent", there must be many more who are struggling, worrying and trying to get help for their children.

Oh I can assure you they exist alright. Whilst such parents are in the minority generally, school staff burn up a lot of time dealing with them.

CopthallResident described the 'competitive mom' (ones who think any advantage conferred on anyone other than their own children is inherently unfair) earlier and this will be easily recognised by most primary and secondary teachers. And other 'slight variations of such a character'.

As to 'foisting' some kids resist it, but some embrace it as it's a convenient excuse. Some daren't refuse it in case of angering their parents and some accept it as they auto-believe their parents wisdom.

Hence the role of the assessor and criteria - but because its not cut and dried and the expert concensus is somewhat strained - the whole topic is controversial.

A similar row is with phonics, with teachers arguing with teachers, experts with experts, politicians with politicians.

And yes, there are families struggling to get support- I don't see this changing, because we will always have limited resources, so they will always be means tested, and whoever misses the means threshold will resent the refusal.

Oh, enough with your pontificating ukjess. Things are not as peachy as you are trying to make out.
DS's school did not spot his Learning Difficulty. When I tried to raise the matter, they then denied he had a problem and refused to progress the matter. I had to pay to get an assessment. I didn't "gravitate" to an advantageous system - I had to find what I could within geographical limitations (many thanks to MN for their help) because the school gave no guidance whatsoever.
His assessment wasn't as wishy-washy as you like to make out. He has an IQ of about 95th centile but scored 5th centile on his LD. Goodness only knows how the school failed to spot the disparity - it was glaringly obvious to me and I have no training in teaching and education. I re-read his school reports after the assessment and realised, with my new found knowledge, that they screamed that there was a LD but none of his teachers put two and two together.

We take children to the dentist and the optician as a matter of course. Why don't we test for LD as a matter of course, too?

I am not quite saying everything is peachy- I'm a long time critic of uk schools.

And I would have no problem with standardised 'spike' tests or similar at set intervals for all UK kids.

Ukjess - The criteria for access arrangements at gcse and A level is pretty clear. It's all on the Jcq website.

pepper,
Thats not quite what we are getting at.
The question was whether the criteria is fair and/or universally supported by parents and experts.

IDK Exactly the same story with my DS.
ukjess I am interested in your idea of "standardised spike tests". Like IDK, my DS has a 93 percentile difference on some tests - it would be very dependent on what tests were given though and the water could again become muddy. There's a whole range of potential tests that could be given and this would be very costly and time consuming. For example, my DS might just be at the bottom of "average" in a spelling test but would drastically fail a phonics test. Individual IQ tests would take hours and cost a fortune whereas children with learning disabilities are highly likely to underachieve on a CATS test where you need to read the questions. If it's down to the parents to do all the running then there will be many without the resources or wherewithal. There will still be those that just meet the cut-off.
If the pushy parents are making up a learning disability then surely they can be sent packing? Are they operating more in the independent sector? Are schools pandering to them because they want better exam results?

Well I'm trying to knit together the things my friends have said, the experiences people have written here and my own experiences (which are a bit out of date as I'm retired).

Now if people are suggesting that the system is unfair because some schools are inept at recognising spikes or overt LD or because some parents are more resourceful than others then one way to ensure equity of entitlement is to have compulsory spike tests at say 5yo and 10yo.

I'm not one to wish to burn tax payers money but at the same time I'm not one averse to the deserved expense of a national scheme.

personally I thought sats at ks2 and ks3 had value for example.
and whilst I am ambivalent about Clegg's testing suggestion I can see pros and cons to it.

it seems to me a battery of different tests could be used at 5 and 10 to look for indicators and some internal assessment by teachers after suitable advice and prompts.

Now of course I'm fully aware that whatever is done will be unpopular in some charters, but that's the nature of my former profession.

Diner,
As to the other questions,

• pushy parents have remarkable persistence

• no, state and independent sectors both have their share

• I suspect it varies from school to school. I have worked with pushover HTs and SENOs and also skilful and resilient HTs and SENCOs.