If a child at school is always in detention or in trouble at school - disclaimer - I am hot, sun scorched and knackered

[redrubyshoes]

should they be kept back from field trips/sports days as well?

Just had a nightmare few days of dealing with same five kids who are always walking out of class, being rude/abusive/bullying to other students/staff and a whole host of other reasons...........but the head (who rarely attends these trips) lets them go.

They took up sooo much of our (staff) time while the other kids were having fun/learning/looking out for each other running/jumping/high jumping/long jumping etc etc etc. We were literally at the end of our tether with these five and they stopped us cheering on the pupils or just sharing our attention around the other 193 or so that were great/not so great/injured/hot/tearful (when they lost)/needed water/food/plasters or WAY TO GO MISS DIDJA SEE THAT!!!! moments.

Am I horrible or just knackered and hot and worn out after a long day?

Hit me with it.

I do feel your frustration- I left the classroom because I wanted to 'get to' those children and couldn't. Now I can.

My point is that some children's behavioural problems are manifestations of serious issues. Some children will lose a parent and cry on your shoulder, whilst others will tell you to go and fuck yourself. Children process trauma in different ways, and it serves no purpose to compare them to one another.

Tethersend

You are right. So very right.

X says 'Fuck off you fucking bitch'

Y says 'I need to talk to someone'

z (the most worrying) says nothing at all.

I literally do not eat lunch many times a week or even have time for it.

What area did you move into to 'get' to those children?

REDRUBY. It sounds like you are in a very challenging School with all those problems?. It is very difficult to know which kids require help and which ones require discipline.

Ah redruby... you sound so utterly fucked off with it all. If you didn't care, you wouldn't have lasted so long!

I think one of the problems is that teachers are now expected to be all things to all children, and receive sweet FA in terms of training, time or support to effectively deal with vulnerable children. You wouldn't dream of asking a clinical psychologist to design and implement an intervention for a trauma experienced child whilst simultaneously teaching thirty others the key issues faced by the Weimar Republic during the 1920s and evidencing progress for all of them within twenty minutes

I'm now an advisory teacher for LAC- I work with a caseload of children in care and their schools.

Do you have another post lined up or know which area you want to go into?

Tethers

My dissertation was on education and indoctrination of children during the Weimar Republic. Bloody weird how you mentioned that!

redruby, I can relate to that. I (think I) have left education for good.
(I think. Because I have gone back a few times after the summer holidays. Been in the secondary sector for 15 years).
I don't know what to do next but I didn't like the person I was becoming. Time for a change.

Spooky!

At DCs school there is a disclaimer on ALL letters that permission to attend ANY trip / event / function is dependent on behaviour and that refunds will not be given.

It works.

At ds1 school parents have to sign a disclaimer that if a child is on a residential trip and displays appalling behaviour then they will be sent home and the parents have to come and get them at their own expense.

'Ds never seems to be out of detention, but it is for forgetting his homework, losing his planner, failing to go to the last detention because he lost his planner...'

Cory, hand back my boy immediately!

Schools may find themselves at the sharp end of the Equality Act if, for example, they exclude a child with ASD, ADHD or with an identified SEN which results in challenging behaviour from a trip which is part of the curriculum.

So, potentially, that school agreement is in contravention of the Equality Act.

tethersend
I'd be very very surprised if DCs school does not have detailed policies about personalised behaviour expectations for certain pupils.
But at the end of the day, society will not accord them that pleasure and they had better learn it.

There is legislation in place which the school must abide by.

They cannot operate outside of that legislation in order to teach the children a lesson.

Redruby, I have been moved and informed by your posts, they give such a clear picture. Thank you - and good luck with whatever you are going to do next.

I have five more days of hell until I leave for good next Friday.

Had a child threaten to 'smash' a teacher's face in today. It was a transfer day from his other school to see if he likes it better at ours.

If we take him on I just thank my lucky stars I will not be there to deal with him.

He lasted less than an hour before kicking off.

May I please end this thread with a HUGE thank you to:

The parents who call in if their child is ill or off school for other appointments. It does not ALWAYS get through to attendance so please do not shout at the poor sod who phones you to check upon your child's whereabouts.

The parents who sends in their child late with an honest 'she/he was swinging the lead/pulling a fast one and send them to class NOW'

He/she has a detention FOR WHAT! Yep go ahead and wait 'til he/she gets home and then I/we will deal with him/her. And then they actually DO deal with the problem. I love you guys.

'That would be the third period she has had this month that has kept her off games - I am pre-menopausal, get her out on the field as she doesn't know the meaning of the word 'period'. I loved that one!

'He was late for school due to traffic? He WALKS to school!' Put him on the phone NOW!

And all the other caring/stressed parent[s] who bring well balanced and caring but sometimes snotty and ill mannered [at times] but very funny and adorable kids into this world that have enriched my world and made me fall about with laughter.

Have made me cakes and weird pottery and drawings (some good some hmmmmmmm)

The children with severe disabilities who just forged ahead and bloody did things that amazed me over and over again.

Like the child with cystic fibrosis who ran cross country every week but fit and able kids said 'I can't be arsed' and refused.

This is my 'private' goodbye to the school I love but I cannot cope anymore with certain kids that take up my time. There are children there that deserve sooo much more than being disrupted every two minutes by kids that have NO idea of good behaviour or manners. They are taught that punching another child in the face is the way to get ahead in life.

I have NOTHING to left to threaten them with.

As I said upthread - if you feel sorry for them then spend 8 hours with then and come back to me.

xxx

ruby are you leaving teaching, or going to another school
as I'm almost tempted to out DH to cheer you up ...

Your SLT should be dealing with this. Monitoring lack of attendance to detention, behavioural policies, Counselling, education off site in part or full, special support networks, support groups, specialist eucation, anger management, exclusions, carrot and stick

My school has far more than 5 students in various programmes

No well managed school leaves teachers to cope unsupported

but academies are brilliant, they do not need LEA oversight, attached inspectors are an anachronism, SLT can do it all on their own
Gove told them so
and if Ofsted kick off, (but they have been instructed to leave all academy converters alone for 3 years) then the corporate shark chains take over
which is what gove wants

That sounds so tough. I was a child a bit like that (but was in care, had an abusive mother and a whole ton of stuff). I can't cope with having my niece (similar t the people you describe) around for half an hour- let a alone teaching a class of 29 other pupils whilst simultaneously trying to stop them disrupting the class and knowing that whatever you do, they couldn't care less and that detention is the norm, not a punishment, for them. Without proper teacher support, I can understand why you are leaving. I love your private goodbye.

this is why mine are in private school and we are broke.
there are troubled kids in the private sector but they do not get away with sirrupting my childs eduation.

Redrubyshoes - do we work in the same school I so empathised with everything you said. 95% of the kids I come into contact with (about 327 - well that's the number of books I have to mark) are brilliant, but 5% are making everyone's life hell. And nobody will do anything about it, so many of my friends are leaving teaching now - fantastic teachers, whom due to the lack of support, the lack of consequences for the precious little darling who are abusive and violent, have had enough.

I am leaving education. Friday was the icing on the cake when we had 8 kids in 'isolation' where the HT let them all draw pretty pictures and play on the computer. They were excluded from class for:

Calling a teacher a 'fucking bastard'.
Smashing a window.
Screaming abuse at a random woman in the street in front of teachers.
Screaming and throwing chairs.
Destroying the work of another student because a teacher praised it.......

etc etc.

They ran out of isolation many times and raced around the school causing havoc. HT had fucked off by this time leaving admin staff to try and control them.

We have an 'outstanding' Ofstead rating doncha know?

Nooo we have no 'problem' students as the HT will save them all!

What a saint he is..................

I am sure these 5% of kids are in many schools that are not either academically selective or, selective though being in a affluent area. These kids are destroying it for the other 95% of pupils and need to be removed away from mainstream schools. That will give everyone else a break, and allow the remaining 95 % to enjoy and achieve at school. This would also stop the other 95% of pupils going to school fearing what the 5% will do next and also stop them joining in with their antics. Many of them joining in with the mad 5% because of fear that if they did not join in the bad 5% will turn on them and maybe hit them or worse.