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Anyone backpedalled on pushy parenting and changed course?

256 replies

AnnaBBB · 25/06/2013 17:55

Am having real second thoughts about applying for highly selective /academic senior schools for DS even though he is quite academic ....... I feel already there is too much teaching is to the test and confess I have contributed to that pressure at home too in an effort to improve his shot at getting into these schools ....but there seems to be little creativity in it all ....I am wondering if it is having the opposite effect of fostering a genuine joy of learning, and the prospect of having him spend several more years of being hothoused at senior school and then having to follow that through at home to keep up in a highly competitive place where everyone needs to get A * or they feel a failure could backfire... the constant testing even at 9/10 years old is making him lose perspective of what he really used to love about a subject and he is starting to question the point of it all. Am curious if others having got into these highly selective schools (aka intensely competitive exam factories/hot houses), regretted it and then pulled their DCs out for similar reasons. Plus you read stories of child geniuses whose parents hothoused them even giving up their own jobs to home school (so effectively 1:1 tutoring) who then grow up to say they feel they lost their childhood and would never put their own children through it (Ruth Lawrence for one). Is it really worth it in the end?

OP posts:
AnnaBBB · 28/06/2013 15:50

yes Russians ...hopefully the school I choose for my DS will be the best ...the best for him that is, which may not be the best for yours or someone else's , which is what this is all about however you choose to (mis)interpret it

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Slipshodsibyl · 28/06/2013 15:52

Russian, if you are serious, research a bit more. If a student gets a part time job- not too hard for a good musician - the government currently pays a fairly sizeable allowance, even to foreigners. I can ask more closely if you want.
You'd need to know you can fund living fees and the yearly university fees, but it would still be less than the borrowing in the UK I am pretty sure.

MrsSalvoMontalbano · 28/06/2013 16:13

Presumably if rich kids go to Ivy League, leaving Oxbridge to poor kids, everyone will be happy?

Bonsoir · 28/06/2013 16:16

Rich kids from all over the planet are looking at university options abroad. Oxbridge won't be left to the poor British kids - it will fill up with rich foreign kids.

wordfactory · 28/06/2013 16:17

Slip- imvho Oxbridge don't need to worry. They have far more fabulous applicants than places. And all the time the widening access progs are helping encourge applicants from hitherto untapped seams. But tutors are a bunch of bloody worriers! They are always on the look out for the one that go away. Like agents!

wordfactory · 28/06/2013 16:22

And to be fair, there are lots of great applicants schooled at top private schools. Particularly in subjects where the state system tends not to excel. The thought that those students are giving Oxbridge the skip does concern some tutors! Particularly if their departments are not very mixed.

AnnaBBB · 28/06/2013 16:25

all this mystique abut Oxbridge ...I think it's a lottery and more so now ...hopefully changed from when I got in as a post grad

My interviewer was a stripy jumpered was out and out marxist ...and the interview was a fireside chat ...I am sure I got in principally because I was able to talk to some of the marxist tomes he favoured rather than anything spectacular on my part

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wordfactory · 28/06/2013 16:29

Not a lottery- there is method in choosing applicants - but a degree of chance, yes.

Taz1212 · 28/06/2013 16:29

My children are Harvard legacies and I'd honestly MUCH rather they went to Oxbridge Grin

I'm not pushing them to go anywhere, however. I am pushing them to do the best they possibly can and hopefully they will end up with a desire to aim high.

RussiansOnTheSpree · 28/06/2013 16:30

slipshod I did do quite a bit of research (and got people in my firm to lookinto it for me) and the result was conclusive. However situations can change and I'm monitoring it, since DD1 is only 15 there is plenty of time!

Slipshodsibyl · 28/06/2013 16:33

Ok. Well I am aware your ability to do sums is better than mine....

AnnaBBB · 28/06/2013 16:36

well I recall at the time there were some undergrads at Oxbridge who were really wanted ..so much so they were offered 2 Ds at A levels to get in ...others had to get all As...and the interviews were somewhat subjective

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wordfactory · 28/06/2013 16:56

Anna I thibk both places have refined their processes a lot!

Oxford, does its due dilligence at the written stage. It likes a very good hand of GCSEs and apporpriate PS.

Cambridge interviews far more. But it uses the A* offer to distill the applicants.

That said, of course chance is involved to some degree. At interview, there can always be a clash of personality etc and A* offers are bound to have an element of chance in them!

AnnaBBB · 28/06/2013 17:01

like i said...I was there many moons ago...i would hope there is more method now

I also think back then if certain public schools heads picked up the phone to a don they knew well and stuck out their neck to push a candidate forward that may have made a difference ...now that just doesn't work ...not should it

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Yellowtip · 28/06/2013 17:39

I haven't read the whole thread OP so apologies if this is mere repetition. Although I'm the antithesis of a pushy micromanaging parent, I think the pressure at top schools can be exaggerated. I have a number of kids at a top superselective and it's in no way uncreative in terms of teaching and learning - quite the opposite. On your main point, I've certainly never detected pressure, either imposed or self-imposed: what has to be done just gets done, along with masses of outside things too.

RussiansOnTheSpree · 28/06/2013 17:57

Yellow The Y10s have been given homework on day one of induction! Grin And DD1 is delighted. Gobbling it up. So even despite Homework!Horror I'd still say it's not hot housing.

Yellowtip · 28/06/2013 18:33

But in context Russians, they do have between now and Sept to do a couple of tasks for each of the four subjects, and it appears to be possible for sillier boys to start it and finish it at a very late stage :)

Yellowtip · 28/06/2013 18:36

No, it's definitely not 'hothousing'. If kids can keep up without stress, it's not hothousing. I'd say it was hothousing if they felt so under pressure that they felt they couldn't lead a perfectly normal out of school life. I'm not sure what my definition really is but I'd know it if I saw it or sensed it and I never have done so far.

pickledsiblings · 28/06/2013 18:49

Somewhere upthread there was some chat about prepping for CE. It reminded me of one of the very big differences between (some) independent schools and state schools - the transfer age. Does anyone know of any research on transfer age i.e 13 vs 11 and outcomes?

Copthallresident · 29/06/2013 11:16

Anna I am at the other end of the process with two DDs who went to a vert selective indie. What I have learnt from the experience is that you really have to go with your instinct in terms of what is right for your child, and not assume the further up the league tables the better.

DD1 was ambitious from the off, she wanted to apply to the most academic schools, we are in West London so she was wanting to apply to some of the most selective "hothouses" in the country. We lived overseas so naively did minimal preparation and she got in everywhere. She had thought she wanted to go to SPGS but she came out of he interview saying that she hated it, thought it was cold, unfriendly and arrogant but she walked out of the school she went to, which had something of a reputation as a souless hothouse, quite certain she wanted to go there. She thrived and they nurtured her love of Science, and gave her opportunities to develop breadth as well as depth, she is an avid reader, enjoyed drama etc. GCSE was a bit of a nadir in terms of academic challenge but that is the nature of the national exam system, they have to get them.

She didn't get into Cambridge because although the interview process is much improved, she for instance had two interviews, each with two interviewers, there are just too many bright applicants chasing places there these days, she was pooled but not offered a place. It is something of a lottery but it's a lottery only the very bright and very motivated even get a stab at. It isn't a problem, where she is now is equally challenging and prestigious for Science, has close relationships with the research organisations, and she has a funded internship this summer at a research institute attached to one of the teaching hospitals and fees waived for her Masters. She absolutely loves Science and her enthusiam has never wained. I feel sure it has all worked out for the best for her .

DD2 who we already knew was dyslexic ( and was recently diagnosed as also dyspraxic, DD1 is also dyslexic but has found her own ways around it and has never had extra time or other support) was guided by one principle in her choice of school, to go where her sister went. I felt that another school further down the tables felt right for her but she worked hard and got in and when I questioned why they had offered her a place (I did that with DD1 too as I wanted to make sure they hadn't just had a good day and might struggle) they clearly had spotted and valued her strengths, creativity, emotional intelligence. So she went there, and again they nurtured her talents, inspirational teaching in English and an impressive CV of roles in school plays (she also presumed her drama outside school, including a west end role ) BUT she really felt the pressure academically, felt that all that mattered was A*s and has developed terrible problems with exam anxiety, including panic attacks. She also felt the school favoured the overconfidant girls who seek attention and it was too easy to feel unnoticed. It was a dysfunctional year with some very difficult girls, they practically had a satellite unit at The Priory by 14, so her experience may reflect the way they handled a very atypical year and their worries about their results. She has now moved for sixth form, to that school further down the tables I thought felt right for her. She much prefers the teaching which she says is encouraging rather than pressuring, and the atmosphere and ethos. So yes we have changed course but I don't think we have backpedalled, just realised we had taken a wrong turning. I don't expect that she will do worse academically just because she is at a less selective school, they may teach differently but they still teach well.

Elibean · 29/06/2013 13:46

I think, as per Copt's experience, choosing the right school is more about the individual child than rights and wrongs about perceived pressure at any given school...

We're only up to Y4 still, so all this lies ahead, but I'm very much in favour of thinking about the whole child (not just academic ability, but temperament, preferences, passions etc) when deciding secondary schools.

I know my eldest dd would hate 'hothousing' and react badly to it - she needs encouragement rather than competition and pressure, regardless of ability. My youngest, OTOH, enjoys competition and may well turn out to need something different.

Personally, I would avoid hothousing like the plague (but then, I turned down a place at Oxford in order to go to London - so may be biased Wink). But highly selective/academic doesn't necessarily=hothousing, though it can certainly be fertile ground for it - to me, hothousing is about forcing, and children can be forced in non-selective environments or purely encouraged in academic ones. It just depends.

RussiansOnTheSpree · 29/06/2013 14:03

I do wonder if any school 'hot houses' its pupils. I suspect that hot housing comes from parents. And that some schools may attract or be cursed by a greater proportion of parents like that, not necessarily because of the school but perhaps because of the location. The teachers may be very opposed to hot housing and may indeed try to mitigate the affects of parental pressure as much as possible...

HabbaDabbaDoo · 29/06/2013 14:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Copthallresident · 29/06/2013 15:08

Russians DD2s year were given endless lectures on the importance of getting A*s. I do think it was the schools panicked response to finding themselves with a cohort that had some very disruptive attention seeking madams who just don't want to work, and probably did need a kick up the backside. Even the Head felt moved to schedule a special session from her to ram the message home. The trouble is that in attempting to kick some backsides they ended up winding up the genuinely conscientious and motivated. I would say that was definitely pressuring out of a misdirected focus on results. However it wasn't the norm, even for that school.

RussiansOnTheSpree · 29/06/2013 15:43

But surely telling people it's important to get A*s, while not necessarily constructive or sensible, isn't yer actual 'hot housing'. To me, hot housing means making kids work all the time, pushing them to do far too many subjects, giving them stupid amounts of homework, testing them every day, punishing them if they don't do well, making them feel thick if they aren't getting 100%. I don't think pointing out that the better your results the better your life chances is 'hot housing'.