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I don't like this threat much, and I am not the only one

98 replies

flyingmachine · 03/02/2004 23:22

opinions needed from the borg, please!

My son is in year 5 and will soon be going on a week long school trip to an outdoor centre in the Lake District with his class. All parents have coughed up the required nearly £200.00 for this little jaunt.

However, a week before the deadline for payment, we were all given a letter from the school. It stated that any child missing their weekly golden time for 2 out of the next 8 weeks would not be allowed to go on the trip. No exceptions to this rule. Parents have been asked to sign a form stating that they are aware of this proposal.

Children miss a golden time if they are given a certain number of bad marks during the week. It's part of a reward/punishment system, but suffice to say that missing a golden time is relatively easy to do. You don't have to be outrageously bad. Many boys and some girls on average miss one or two a term.

So we now have a situation where some children stand a very real chance of being banned from the school trip. As the banning will happen at a late stage, it is unlikely that parents will be reimbursed anything like their full £200.00 if this happens.

At least one boy has already missed a one golden time and is near to missing another one. And there is still six weeks to go!

Aa far as I am aware - and I have been asking around - in previous years these sanctions have not been imposed. And there was no warning that we would get a letter like this. But my son's year is seen as a 'difficult' year.

Taking the school's point of view, health and safety issues are of great importance on a week-long holiday. As the letter states, teachers cannot take responsiblity for children who do not follow instructions and generally misbehave.

But - if health and safely are such concerns, then surely the adult child ratio should be improved? if my son's year is full of 'difficult' children, why not get more adults to come along to help? is this beyond financial possibily?

I am lucky so far in that my son is behaving himself. I am prepared for the fact that he might miss one golden time in the next 6 weeks, but so far so good. However, it wasn't that long ago that he was missing golden times a lot and I know what it feels like to have a son who won't abide by small but important rules.

I know the mother of one of the children who has already missed a golden time. She is really worried and cross that her hard earned cash could be wasted. And if the worst happens, she will have to cope with a son who will be devastated to miss out, and singled out from his class in such a wounding way. In the end, parents have no direct control over how children behave in the 7 hours each day they are at school. And some teachers at this school give out bad points for things as small as leaving a shirt untucked.

And is it fair to punish children twice? they get their golden time taken away - plus they miss the holiday.

And what about the poor teacher, knowing a child is but one small mark away from missing a holiday - will they still give out that last bad mark? It puts them in a horrible position. Or what about a visiting teacher who gives out that last bad point not realising what's at stake?

Many parents, me included, have not returned our signed form. But from the tone of the letter, it looks like this will not affect the outcome anyway. Our signature is only meant as confirmation that we have received the letter. Has anyone any thoughts on this? it's been presented to us as a fait accompli.

Ps - yes, it's me again!

OP posts:
robinw · 24/03/2004 09:33

message withdrawn

hmb · 24/03/2004 09:36

The mother was a non teaching member of staff, not a parent helper. The child was only there because the mother was there. The child was in a different school. I agree that the teacher was at fault, but if you take your child on a works outing you would be expected to take responsibility for that child.

hmb · 24/03/2004 09:37

So the parent should have taken resonable precaustions because she was on the staff, if, as you say, all of them were responsible

Jimjams · 24/03/2004 10:04

I'm with hmb here. My son was only allowed to attend his last school trip because I was there. Therefore he was my responsibiliity.

In the case in question it seems even more clear cut. If the mother took her child along to a school trip - for a DIFFERENT school then surely she has to have responsibility.

roisin · 27/03/2004 08:41

Is it next week Tigermoth? Just wanted to say hope ds1 has a superb time. I'm sure he will. Weather forecast seems good for this time of year too.

tigermoth · 27/03/2004 08:55

yes, he's off on Monday. Fingers crossed!

Children have been told if they misbehave on the trip, year 5's won't be allowed to go again in next year, and year 6's will be suspended from school for a day and will have that suspension on their school record.

Batters · 27/03/2004 21:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

collision · 27/03/2004 21:16

The school sounds very scary IMO. How do they differentiate between bad behaviour and typical over enthusiasm and boisterousness that will automatically come when away from home/parents? I hope it doesnt stifle all the children and their enjoyment of the trip.

ScummyMummy · 27/03/2004 21:21

Oh well done to your boy, tigermoth. I hope he has a great time. I too have reservations about the way they've handled all this from your descriptions here but I'm so glad he's been allowed to go.

emsiewill · 27/03/2004 21:25

Does anyone else think that the school is focussing too much on the negative here? Surely by putting so much at stake on this trip (future childrens' trips, current childrens' school records), they're just asking for trouble? I'm not an expert at the "accentuate the positive", I find it quite hard at times, but I do believe in it, and it just seems the school are so scared about what might happen (but is surely not likely to happen) that they've given up on positive behaviour management (or whatever it's called)

collision · 27/03/2004 21:29

Good point. Maybe they should be trying to reward good behaviour and giving them prizes rather than focussing on the bad behaviour and scaring the kids and the parents to death!

tigermoth · 28/03/2004 18:28

thanks for your messages. Ds is VERY excited. I really want him to have a proper sleep tonight. I have taken him to the swimming pool and skateboard park in the hope of wearing him out. He says he is tired now, so a big meal later on should just about send him off.

I think the emphasis on discipline is a relection of the risk analsis teachers have carried out for every aspect of the trip. The head called me in this week to ask dh and I to speak with ds about expected behaviour on holiday. We have, but I am not sure ds is listening any more - he has heard it all before. I can only hope he is OK. He has had nearly three terms of ok behaviour at the school, so he can do it.

I agree about positive reinforcements. I really hope they do have a holiday reward system, and will try and ask about this when I see the teachers tomorrow morning.

hmb · 28/03/2004 19:02

I can't help but think that part of the reason that the teachers are so hyper about the children's behaviour is because of recent, high media cases where children have been hurt or worse.

I can honestly say that I would never consider taking children on anything other than a museum visit because of the potential risk.

Last year I spent some tome with a primary school who had taken the kids on an out ward bound type weekend. the kids behaved very well and everyone had a great time. Out of interest I asked them how many parents had tanked them for taking the kids. Bear in mind they had no extra pay for this and had been on duty 24/7 for the whole weekend. Answer , one parent.

Even though realise that the kids get a massive amount out of these trip I don't think my nerves would stand it.

Realy glad that your ds is getting to go, hope he has a great time.

Hulababy · 28/03/2004 19:17

I have to say that as a teacher I would now no longer take pupils on many trips at all. I would certainly not do a residential trip again, or one abroad. I am also cautious when selecting where to visit on short day/session visits. Why? Quite simply, with the good will int he world, I know that I can not watch a dozen or more pupils for the whole time and keep a check on every single one of them and know what every one of them is doing at any one time. Yet if something went wrong I have to take the resposibility with the consequences of whatever that might be.

I do secondary so it is different but the responsibility is still there.

My last school trip (luckily I was not in charge, my day off, just went along as I was part of the teaching team but didn't contribute to that trip's staffing). We took 50-60 sixth form pupils to York for a day to do research withint he city. Students went off in 3 or 4s ad had to meet up with us twice during the day to check iin and register. We were there less than 15 minutes when the other teacher got a phone call on the emergency mobile - from a pupil. His mate had been caught shop lifting in HMV. 2 members of staff then spent the day in the police station dealing with this, and tons more time back at school. I'm afraid it just isn't worth the hassle at times

bossykate · 28/03/2004 19:54

hi tigermoth, hope he has a wonderful time.

Marina · 29/03/2004 10:15

Yes, what a shame you are not getting a week's holiday too after all your hard graft on this one tigermoth! Hope he has a super time - that they all do!

roisin · 03/04/2004 08:18

Have you heard any news TM? Have they all had a happy holiday?

tigermoth · 03/04/2004 09:37

spoke to ds on the phone yesterday. The holiday has finished but he is now staying with his grandparents. He says it was brilliant, he was good and no one suffered any no huge incidents or accidents. From what I can gather then, he calmed down once he was there. Will have a quick chat with the teachers when I see them next to confirm this.

I got his postcard just now. It reads 'dear mum and dad, never want to come home. (Archery and skiing is wicked). PS it's a smelly pen!'

Batters · 03/04/2004 12:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

roisin · 03/04/2004 13:23

Love the postcard! Great to hear it seems to have all gone really well.

eddm · 03/04/2004 13:31

Ah, so glad it went well after all the stress you've been through.

Twink · 03/04/2004 18:19

Oh that's great Tigermoth, so pleased it worked out eventually & the postcard's a classic !

tigermoth · 04/04/2004 07:20

thanks - I must remember to say thank you to the teachers for their hard work on the trip. There was a comment on here about how rarely parents do this.

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