11+ being scrapped

[musu]

At one school in Essex here

Interesting development which follows on from Bucks CC overhauling their 11+ and trying to make it tutor proof (although everyone I know in Bucks is still employing tutors).

Morethan - if you have a spare £100 per month every month on FSM level income, then you must have what I believe some of the young people call sick budgeting skillz Yes, that would be skillz with a z. Like Liza.

Russians.

Maybe I do and maybe others do too.
I think it is wrong to not consider a particular group when the conversation includes outreach and markets.
I know of several very bright dc who went to school with my dc who would have passed 11+ with their eyes closed. The reason they didn't sit 11+ or go to grammar is because their parents weren't encouraged or informed and the dc weren't supported or encouraged.
Oh and if you go to one of those schools you're a geek (according to their peers) it isn't the culture in our town. There lies the problem

Oh come on morethan. seeker is allowed to sneer at what the grammars are doing to encourage access (by implicitly referring to the initiatives as not proper) and then no one can point out the obvious flaws?

Also, if you're on an income of £16,190 or less and can contemplate a grand a year a child to fund grammar travel (because you care) then I suspect you're in the happy position of not paying a mortgage or rent. Either that or you don't ever eat. Skillz or no.

I don't understand the necessity for tutoring. DD breezed through her 11+ (to a superselective) without any tuition whatsoever, and she is not a brainiac, just a sensible averagely bright girl. Where has all this paranoia come from?

It's another matter that I don't think the school is particularly good and in consequence have not sent DS there. For sure it has 100% A-C at GCSE and 70%+ A/A* grades but that has been achieved by some naked teaching to the test, and there is no sports or music to speak of. Hell would freeze over before she goes there to the sixth form. Not that I've said this to her of course, but the teachers aren't best and I do think you need decent teaching and guidance at sixth form.

All this tutoring seems to have become a nuclear arms race. Why not disarm, put the weapons down, they're only conferring a marginal advantage at best and just think about education rather than exam results. If that makes sense.

MTS, get you to bed, girl. This is not an issue to get emotional or personal about. Sleep tight :)

No test is untutorable. Take our selective.They don't publish pass papers. Some of the parents get pass this obstacle by hiring tutors familiar with the test thus establishling an advantage over those who can't afford such a tutor or who don't know one.

While I was waiting for DC to come out of the exam I saw a 'dad' debriefing his 'son' and making notes. I later found out that was the tutor trying to stay up to date with exam content. The parents definitely got their money's worth with that particular teacher :)

Good morning.

Yellowtip

Yes you are totally right I don't pay mortgage or rent, however even when I did my dcs education was a major priority as it is for most people. None of my dc were grammar potential but if they were I would have moved heaven and earth to get them there.
I'm not suggesting that everyone can afford the travel to schools many miles away, but don't see this as the biggest barrier.
I was really responding to a post further up that said it wasn't possible to afford travel costs on low income with fsm entitlement.
I would like to see parental consultation and info evenings to explain the system to parents who don't understand. I myself don't understand the process as have never been involved with grammar schools. If my dc had been so bright I have the resources to have found out information. Many parents would struggle with this and their bright children miss a good education because of this.
It isn't the fault of grammar schools, nor the system of gaining a place 11+ etc.

If everyone approached it like you, Wuldric there wouldn't be a problem! It is such a pity they don't.

There are parent consultation and info evenings of course. The HTs visit primaries for parents in Ys 4 and 5. But not all primary HTs agree to a visit. Some refuse the offer.

Yellowtip

That is very interesting about some HTs refusing visits. As far as I am aware there are no such evenings in our town, nor were there when my older dc were at school. There are only a few grammars round here that dc would be able to travel to, but believe the town is in their catchment as a few dc do indeed attend. Also according to my dc nobody mentioned 11+ or grammar schools to them at all. We received no info at all and neither did any other parent. Is this just our area then or are others similar.

morethan - Why wouldn't it be a 'big barrier'?

If you are on a limited income counting all the pennies then travelling costs would take a major chunk out of that income. Given that a lot of parents don't believe in their kids 'commuting' to school, that attitude will be reinforced if you have limited income to start off with.

yellow I think teachers are often one of the biggest barriers!

I know I've been astonished at some of the attitudes I've seen while taking part in the widening access prog for uni.

In Cranbrook in Kent there has been, for the past few years, no state education that leads to the exclusively 13+ entry at Cranbrook School (a GS). Three local private preps all prepare DC for entrance to Cranbrook, but the local primaries end at 11 and the local all ability state secondary, formerly known as Angley School (now rebranded as it was failing), refuses to participate in preparing DC for Cranbrook and was at loggerheads with the GS. Hence state pupils in Cranbrook needing to go to Tonbridge for GS.

This is the state system at war with itself and freeing up places for DC from prep schools to go to GS. There are now firm proposals to make Cranbrook an 11+ school in the near future - though the costs and logistics of that are not yet resolved.

Word - I agree. It can be astonishing. And very depressing.

Morethan - just because you have a low income doesn't mean you have low wealth. You have no mortgage therefore you are significantly better off than many many people including probably many people who don't qualify for FSM.

Yellowtip, please can you link to any documents online outlining the outreach initiatives of which you speak. I have looked and can't seem to locate anything although I know that there was supposed to be a 'roll out' of them after the Pate's flagship initiative.

Bonsoir, I always thought it ridiculous that Cranbrook was a 13+ entry State School. I haven't heard of any others. It's not so much a case of Angley not preparing kids for GS as Independents using preparing kids for GS as a marketing ploy. If the Independents kept their noses out then things might be different.

No, that's not right, pickledsiblings. There is a long and complicated back story, but Cranbrook wouldn't have anything like enough candidates if it relied on state schools. It is 13+ for historic reasons (it's a very ancient school) and to make it 11+ is going to require huge investment in an area where there is already overcapacity in state secondary schools.

Cranbrook has a catchment of about 6 miles, I believe.

Bonsoir, shouldn't Independent schools be preparing students for Common Entrance instead of focussing on the traditionally tested VR/NVR 11+ subjects. It has been a while since I lived in the Cranbrook School catchment area so my thinking could be out of date, but certainly where I live now, the Independents that transfer at 11 'teach' VR although no Senior Independent Schools (to my knowledge) test VR.

pickled many prep schools now help prepare their pupils for a variety of secondary options.

The co-ed ones in particular, as most girls go up at eleven to independent schools.

Also, lots of public schools now have their own entrance test and CE is becoming a bit redundant.

By not allowing in-County state primaries to 'prepare' students for the 11+, you affectively open up competition to pupils from other Counties which is one of the reasons why you have such ridiculous journey times.

True word, but it doesn't seem right that one of those options is State GS.

In Kent, prep schools have traditionally offered preparation for all the available secondary school options, including the Kent test (11+), girls' senior schools entrance exams (day and boarding), Cranbrook and CE. Private schools prepare their pupils for whatever options their customers (parents) require.

There is a private school near me which markets itself almost exclusively on it's nearly 100% 11+ success rate.