11+ being scrapped

[musu]

At one school in Essex here

Interesting development which follows on from Bucks CC overhauling their 11+ and trying to make it tutor proof (although everyone I know in Bucks is still employing tutors).

But not going to a GS!=being told you are a failure. You are the only person who thinks that. I don't think my DS, who didn't even bother to try out for the GS, is a failure. But he knows he isn't the same sort of learner as DD1. That's a fact, it's not an opinion. He is in the right place for him, she is in the right place for her.

You are the person talking about people being failures, not me or Yellow, or Word.

Let's pretend, shall we, that my children are not involved?

I have always been completely me about situation- but my position on the 11+ was formed before I had children of school age, so my children are completely irrelevant.

Have any of you talking about children not feeling failures eve been in the playground of a Kent primary school on the day the Kent test results come out?

Thought not.....

Russian- you are in a super selective area- that is, as we bot agree, different.

Handcream - If I wasn't a high earner (but not sadly high enough to be able to afford to send all 3 DCs to posh school, and certainly not secure enough to take a punt on being able to command those earnings for the huge number of years that will cover all 3 DC's educations) I might well have looked at the bursary route for all 3 of my DCs. Even though our local posh schools are not as good as the GS. Because of the travel, mainly. But that route isn't open to me.

I'm not sure I engage overly with seeker on this MTS since I think her propositions and reponses are weak.

What you need to do is take KENT out of the equation. Nobody is saying 'let's all be like Kent'. Far from it. Reducing every single thread to talking about Kent is ridiculous and counter productive and just makes it obvious you are not interested in anything other than restating your own opinion. We all agree with you that the Kent system doesn't work. I'd happily call for a change to superselectives only in Kent. And everywhere else.

And it is absolutely true that you're the one with the mindset of failure seeker. I just don't think in those terms. Different perhaps, but not inherenly better or worse.

Have any of you talking about children not feeling failures eve been in the playground of a Kent primary school on the day the Kent test results come out?

or Bucks when their results come out?

Well, if everyone agrees that the Kent system doesn't work, why don't any of the pro selection people except you say so?

"And it is absolutely true that you're the one with the mindset of failure seeker. I just don't think in those terms. Different perhaps, but not inherenly better or worse."

It's not my mindset which means children who don't pass are commiserated with by shopkeepers! Or am I imagining it?

Seeker - how can you say that what you think about the 11 plus is irrelevant!! You put both children forward and appealed when one didnt pass so I think we are all clear what you think about the test. The problem I think tbh is that one of your children didnt pass it but that's the risk.

Not everyone passes a test where there is a pass mark!

I went to a sec modern. I wasnt the failure - it was the blooming school that failed me with no real expectations. If the academic element was taken out and more vocational/trades were concentrated on wouldnt that be better?

Having had to get a plumber out over the years. They are like gold dust!! Lets have more of them. We cannot all be A* students.

I have held the same opinion since before I had children of school age. I have posted extensively on the subject.

Of course what I think of the 11+ is relevant. What happened to my children isn't.

But surely you can see Seeker that complaining you dont like selection and then taking a very well know test with a known pass and fail mark makes you someone who doesnt practise what they preach.

It may or may not be awful on results day for the 11+ in Kent.
Probably no worse than GCSE results day to be honest.

But that doesn't mean you should throw the baby out with the bathwater and insist that absolutely everyone in the entire country should be forced to got to a comprhensive!

It's a totally disproportionate response, and based on what? There is no eveidence that comprehnsives are either aiding social mobility or providing a better education.

I'm sure Yellow has said in the past that she doesn't think the Kent system is much cop. Word also. We are not monsters, or people with closed minds, we can see how invidious the system is. However you seem incapable of recognising that for the very top cut, and that might not just be by exam results either, especially with GCSEs being the way they are, something different is needed.

Seeker - again, you are comparing what seems to be a local ton for local people with the rest of the world which might be very different. I do not know a single shop keeper who would either know or care what school my kids attend. Not one.

Kent sounds like it has the perfect storm of issues that make the current situation unpatatable!

The GSs appear extremely complacant and make no effort to ensure their pupils are the brightest, content instead to accept middle class well supported parents.

That's probably one of the reasons why some of their results are not actually all that!

Locally, there is an arms race amongst the middle classes. Most can no longer afford private school, so the pressure on the GSs is terrific. Plus there is an atmosphere that private schools (when GS is free) is a waste of money. So even more pressure.

Kent is close enough to London, that it is inffected with a desire to 'get on' yet too far away to be trully cosmopolitan. What my old Dad used to call 'tuppeny millionaires'...everyone bound up in the idea that GS is the make or break thing!

I reckon our school could have a whole extra form per year group, and still not be qualitatively different from the school it is now (although it might cause an issue for some of the kids, such as DD1, whose SEN issues mean that the smaller a school the better). So, an intake of 150 instead of 120. If that sort of coverage was introduced throughout the country, and obviously in more densely populated areas there would be a 'served' area rather smaller than our oft quoted 50 mile radius (which takes in kids from 3 or 4 counties), then that should work beautifully. Counties with difficult transport routes (not necessarily worse transport than where we are, but travel issues caused by geography/the road or rail network) might have to vary it a bit. There would need to be free or cheap buses. But it would work. The kids not going to the SSGS would not be, feel like, or be labelled as, failures. The SSGS could do more outreach than might currently be the case. It could definitely work.

I think it would work fine russians

And no one would feel a failure if they didn't get in, especially if through outreach and adjustments less middle class kids won a place !

And plenty would not want to apply.

I think as a country we realy have to think about it. At the moment too many bright kids have no access to such schools and we are squandering that talent. Talent that might help us all in so many ways if used wisely.

Absolutely right Russians. These sorts of school accessible to all right across the country with the tutoring thing knocked on the nut as far as that's possible and free transport. And get rid of this plethora of grammars in Kent. That would be the ideal. For the top 10%.

seeker I'm not sure if you're aware of the outreach programmes that go on in the superselectives. They're not as far reaching as the Oxford Access Scheme if only because of resources (money and time). But there is the political will. Your version of the same education for all does sound incredibly unimaginative and dull and I think would tend to make some kids duller than they'd otherwise be.

There seems to be a fair bit of consensus about these SSs! Not that it would probably be an issue for us, but I would be concerned about quite that amount of travel though.

Most kids really enjoy the journey though, that's the feedback they give. Mine live close so it's not an issue but lots of their friends don't. It's pretty clubbable on these buses, good down time.

But nit your DC wouldn't have to travel. No one would if they didn't think it right!

It would just be a choice available to those DC who might best benefit from it.

"Your version of the same education for all does sound incredibly unimaginative and dull and I think would tend to make some kids duller than they'd otherwise be."

Agggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Show me where I have said anything about the same education for all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'mmmmm