Think Carefully Before Opting for Private Education

[PRMum2012]

i am a mum of two (23 months and 3 in august)I am self-employed, part time and married to a lovely architect. We have a great life and two happy kids.

On paper I would say I have not done too badly with my life and my aim is to work full time as soon as possible now my kids are a bit older. If the work was available I would happily work full time now.

Despite setting up my own business I can't help feeling like a failure that I can't afford for my own children, what my parents did for me.... It annoys me that I put so much importance on it ... I am now passionate about finding a decent local primary school for my children so they don't feel the same pressure i do now, when they are older and looking for schools for their kids ....but i'll be honest ......assuming i can afford it i would try and do it from 11 if i can....!!!!...

Hopefully by then, my kids will have an input too and they will be forming their own opinions on the issue.

Depending on mortgage and family support I can't see that it's possible for anyone with two kids earning under £80,000 - £1000,000 + (as a family income) to afford private education anymore, my advice is unless you have a thriving business or two, work as a dr, lawyer or banker.... Forget it.

It's really hard to watch my younger sibling do it for her kids, they are paying for private prep while we cant afford it.... But it really upsets me I feel like this... why can't I just be happy for them and quietly satisfied that I don't need to pay on top of my taxes for my kids education.

For my own primary education i went privately, tried the local school for secondary education but was bullied so moved back to the private system.... I had a mix of private and state during secondary - my second private school was amazing but the second state school I attended for 6th form (my choice) was great too so why is this all having such an impact on what I want for my own kids.

My DH is much more laid back, he went privately all the way through but doesn't place as much value on it as I do/did....I wish I felt the same way but all I feel now is pressure to earn more money so I can pay for them both from 11.

bella
I doubt there is a significantly different number of women who do or don't want to be in positions of authority/power as men. Yet there are a much much smaller number of women in those positions. I struggle to think of an explanation that doesn't involve an element of the "glass ceiling".

I get the impression sometimes that ambition is seen as unfeminine.

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Its difficult to get a thrill from power at work when you see younger male colleagues with less experience being treated more favourably.

bella there are undoubtedly many women who don't want positions of power and there are many women not capable of holding them...just as there are men who don't want them and are incapable of them.

But that does not expalin the paucity of women in those roles, or the flip side, the over representation of men.

And yes, sexism in the work place does play a part...but so does sexism within society. Unaffordable child care, male partners refusing to take their share of responsibility, other women peddling the line that a demanding job and motherhood are incompatible etc

People who are either wholly privately educated or have a bad experience of the state system get terribly wound up about this.

Actually there are lots of jolly good state schools out there. I went to one. OK the extra curricular was not a patch on what I would have got at a public school, but I still got to Cambridge.

We knew we would never be wealthy enough to just be able to buy private education for our two. So we have made our life choices around them being able to grow up in a nice part of the world with a good range of excellent state schools. The two grammar schools I hope mine will eventually go to get academic results on a par with the very best public schools.

Our careers have suffered as we don't live where the very best jobs are. We have limited earning power. But I think we made the right choice. Friends live in London and work all hours god sends to pay for school fees and spend huge amounts of time on fighting through the rush hour to get the kids to their various schools and activities. Not for us.

Agree with wordfactory. (I find I quite often do, especially on issues to do with food if not private ed .) Also agree about the Younger Blokes.

MTS, there is a perfectly coherent argument about work/life balance, and that it's possible to change some of the current, persistent, work structures to accommodate people who both want to work and to have a life (and by that I don't just mean do childcare. Frankly, I think people should be able to do whatever the hell they like, including doing nothing). There is a tedious culture of presenteeism and visible overwork which is just a bit wearing, really.

Bumps - Not all well paid jobs require all the hours of the day. I would say nurses work harder than many people I know in the City without the fringe benefits of taxis to take you home if you work late and first class travel etc. I hate it when people moan about how hard they work at these desk bound jobs.

There are also family-friendly well paid jobs. For example I work in a fund management firm and the core hours are 8am - 5pm. The fact that many of my male colleagues share child care responsibilities with their working wives mean that the firm is sensitivie to work/life balance issues. We have male fund managers who leave at 4.30 as thay have to pick the kids from school.

These threads are fascinating, like looking in on another world. DP and i have never contemplated private ed for our 3 DC. We have never set foot inside a private school yet we both have higher degrees.

I wonder what my children are missing. They are bright and happy, I'm confident they will get into a good university if they are prepared to work hard enough.

Beyond that...well I suppose they will miss out on that network of privately educated people which ensures that the plum jobs are kept within privileged circles.

"Beyond that...well I suppose they will miss out on that network of privately educated people which ensures that the plum jobs are kept within privileged circles."
ubik as you said you've never contemplated private schools or set foot in one. If you had you might know that this plum job old boys network privileged circles stuff has absolutely nothing to do with your school its all to do with who your parents know and the circles they move in and which uni you went too.
People who can cheerfully and effortlessly stump up £34 000 per year per child are unlikely to be working as an office cleaner and living in social housing in Peckham, they will be bankers, city lawyers etc they will mix with their ilk and their children will be often assisted into these plum jobs by either their parents or their parents friends.

WF there are undoubtedly many women who don't want positions of power and there are many women not capable of holding them...just as there are men who don't want them and are incapable of them.

But that does not expalin the paucity of women in those roles, or the flip side, the over representation of men.

Would you like to give some examples to prove this then?

Or is it just your hunch?

Which professions?

IME women are under represented because they choose to take time out to care for their children. But that is a CHOICE they make.

In all areas of work- medicine, law, It, teaching, engineering, you will find women at a high level. Some professions attract more men anyway- eg engineering and IT- but women can still progress on merit in any sphere.

Why is it assumed that a woman should only want or achieve power from paid employment. Surely there is power in not having to/choosing not to work for somebody else.
If it is assuming that money makes you powerful, I don't see how it gives you greater power or choices than if you hadn't any money. The choices are just different.

"Beyond that...well I suppose they will miss out on that network of privately educated people which ensures that the plum jobs are kept within privileged circles."

I wouldn't worry about that. It's only really a charmed circle of 4 or 5 schools where that happens- if people choose private school for their children because they think it will open doors most of them will be sadly disappointed!

My sister works in the accounts department at a warehouse. She got a mate's husband a job as a warehouseman. Since it's not a 'plum' job I'm guessing that it's not frowned upon by MNetters.

It's 'funny' how you can tell a mate that there is a minimum wage job going and that you'll tell HR that you know the person and he is reliable and that is ok. If the job pays 6 figures then the eyes collectively roll and mutterings of 'old boy's network' can be heard.

I think the bigger obstacle to female progress is sexist upbrinings and cultures and sexist men at home and having to do more than half of domestic stuff and constant streams of propaganda suggesting women and work don't mix and a woman's place is in the home. That is bigger barrier than discrimination at work. However there is some discrimination if you don't fit in to someone's idea of who they want fo0r a role,.

Plenty of women adore power and are ambitious. It's lots of fun.

A lot of the work complaints on the thread are about office politics. There is nothing to stop those women opting out of that and earning more than the used to elsewhere, owning, Books like the 4 hour working week etc give illustrations of those options. I work for a lot of internet sellers for example. If it's just office politics you don't like leave but don't stay home and earn nothing, leave and set up on your own doubling your income.

It's almost as though it is more difficult to get, and nicer to have, a job that pays 6 figures than one that pays the minimum wage, isn't it BSChickenFan? How strange.

Happygardening.

You are completely right here. In fact there are many professions and lifestyle choices that are a closed shop to many others not in the family/ same circles of association. It can be seen in all walks of life too, the entertainment indudustry/ circus and fairground attractions is an example. Gypsy hawkers have traditionally passed down skills form the family and woe betide others trying to get in on their patch.

Indeed. As I've children at graduate age I am interested in what children do and why for career. I was reading this morning about someone whose parents had put every last penny into his private education and he had planned to be a barrister. I think they sent him to a leading public boarding school and they were jobbing actors. He did marvellously in school plays so well his father said he might well be very very good so he went off and did that and now is famous and is cross people think he's a posh rich boy when his parents were not wealthy in any sense and sacrificed much to pay his school fees - he was an only child. What was interesting was I saw yet another example of chilren doing what their parents do.

It is not new. People in the UK will be called Mr Baker because their family years back were always bakers etc etc. That is why Mrs Housewife is likely to breed a low earning low achiever whose life plan will consist of marrying and keeping house.

You must bump into very different people to me, Xenia, perhaps I ought to tell my friends who were SAHM that their DCs shouldn't be doctors, dentist, vets, actuaries etc- they will probably wonder where I come across such odd theories.
I can't be bothered to look up all the famous people with surnames like Baker and Carpenter.

It is all to do with personality. Lots of people want power and find it fun- lots of people don't.

We are lucky to live in a country where female education is not a privilege. In many countries, at least where I am from, girls are not educated because they may 'choose' to stay home to look after the children and if money is an issue parents would prioritise sons over daughters as boys would need to earn enough to take care of their families.

I support every one's right to do what is best for their families but find it interesting to compare the discussions about SAHMs to what happens back home. I guess this society is truly progressive.

It's only a genuine choice to take time out to care for children if you've got the option of good, affordable childcare otherwise, and that it's assumed that men will make this choice as often as women.

I think rather the oposite, Xenia.

I see lots of kids, wo went far, because they had a parent at home to help them with homework, or at least to check they did it, who encouraged their learning through books, proper conversations, teaching how to do research etc.

In fact, I do not know that many downtrodden low achiever housewives.

A figment of your imagination perchance? You seem to fight the dowdy housewives, but sometimes I think you are just fighting an imaginary enemy, which makes your posts slightly comical.

I actually think most SAHMs are overly invested in their children and quite pushyfor their kids to achieve all they can!

It is a genuine choice to take time out if you don't care how wonderful and affordable the childcare is, you actually want to take time out.

Xenia is stuck in the 1950s - or is stuck in London- I'm sure she hasn't a clue what your average SAHM is like in Falmouth, Keswick, Cirencester, Macclesfield etc - or even less if they are in a small village she has never heard of. Quite why the majority would want to swap and commute to offices in London beats me.

I suppose so, Exoticfruits. I so cannot imagine wanting that option that it didn't occur to me! But also we are so beset by the idea that 'good mothers' do want to, and that women are 'lucky enough' to be able to stay at home (that's the expression used all time on MN) that choices do become quite overdetermined.

Bella if you trully believe that women are not underepresented in most professions, particularly at senoir level...then I suggest you do some research. It is a fully evidenced fact, regualrly discussed in parliament, in the press, in think tanks...on MN!

exotic MN is full of threads by SAHMs who are not happy with their lot!!!

Not every SAHM has chosen it. Far far from it!