Late Grammar School offer: over the moon but stressed/flummoxed

[PermaShattered]

What a 3 days we've had - any insightful comments welcome. In short:

1. Our daughter was offered 3rd choice (her 11+ score was about 30 down on passmark);
2. 3rd school is outstanding but we appealed to 2nd choice school as was our preference;
3. Last Friday took calls from our local Ed admissions authority saying why appealed when have offer from grammar school?
4. Said we hadn't. She made further calls to other relevant admissions authority and came back and told us we definitely have an offer and it would be in post next day (Saturday just gone);
5. It duly arrived, and we posted our acceptance same day (they should have got it today) - verbal acceptance of place given by phone on Friday;
6. On Friday the Authority also withdrew both our place at 3rd choice school and our appeal to 2nd choice school;
7. Today i take a call from a friend whose daughter got substantially higher score than my DD - and she is 188 on waiting list;
8. I call our admissions auth to check they received our acceptance (they said still in posttray but will be dealt with this afternoon);
9. I query whether there could possibly an error and i'm told categorically 'no'. And if there was, we have a written offer, accepted it and they can't take it off our daughter;

10. Finally, my other DS is that grammar school.

I'm perplexed. What could be a possible explanation?

I think prh47bridge's last paragraph is key. I think I would approach from the angle that class size and narrow corridors are irrelevant, because your appeal is one based on error. Therefore, prejudice to the school doesn't even factor, so why discuss it?

prh47 thanks - as always. I'll formally ask for that information - hopefully i can get the info before the appeal date.

Re your final para: I know this in theory, but my concern is that I've read (not sure where) that Academy panels are harder to satisfy and win appeals; that they tend to ignore case law...... Can't imagine that's the case so I'm just determined to cover all bases.

It seems that if my daughter is correct the appeal should not even reach the second stage. But another concern of mine is i don't want to seem aggressive/awkward in that first stage. Being a lawyer doesn't mean I have confident as a speaker! (I never went down the advocacy path as I was nervous wreck appearing on behalf of clients in court during my training.....!)

The appeal panel must be independent and must follow the Appeals Code. If they do not do so or they ignore previous rulings by the LGO or the courts you will have to refer the matter to the EFA as they. I hope that isn't necessary.

If yours is being heard as an individual appeal you will almost certainly go through both stages before the appeal panel makes any decisions. However, regardless of whether or not your daughter is correct, they shouldn't get to the second stage of the decision making process unless there are other children affected by mistakes.

I've been lurking since the start OP and I wanted to add my voice of support. I cannot believe they're taking this as far as appeal. I hope your children aren't too upset by this whole affair.

Just realised I didn't finish a sentence in my last post!

...refer the matter to the EFA as they, rather than the LGO, deal with problems in Academy appeals.

Thanks prh - I didn't know about the EFA so ta for that.

Not sure I understood your very last sentence in that post though.....do you mean they shouldn't take the appeal to the second stage (ie part 2 of the appeal when they hear our specific appeal - or am I misunderstanding that bit?!) if my DD is the only one affected by mistake ...... ? Sorry, I'm so tired and overwhelmed by it again....

Lomaamina thanks for support, so appreciated.

I think Prh47bridge is saying that you will go through both stages of the hearing, but when the panel are making their decision, they shouldn't get past the first stage of decision making, because they should find that there was an error in the process, which entitles you to the place, so they don't have to consider prejudice.

I think you need advice from the admissions experts as to whether you even get into a discussion about sizes of classes and corridors. Everything you have said so far on this thread relates to an offer being made and not withdrawn in an acceptable timeframe. Surely that must be the sole focus of your appeal? As you say, you want to avoid muddling the issue with sibling priority or classroom sizes since these are not relevant to your appeal. But happy to be corrected by the admissions experts.

perma, are you sure you aren't giving any identifying information about the school? there's a post up there with school info that might want removing

alien and Easter right on both counts. I'm getting too bogged down, probably trying too hard to cover every base. And yes re identifying info - thanks for pulling me up on that, hopefully that post will disappear soon!

I need another holiday!

Lougle is correct.

From your last post I suspect yours is a grouped multiple appeal. If that is the case the first stage, where all parents are together, will be about the prejudice to the school and whether or not they have followed the process correctly. You should raise your issue at this stage as you are saying they have got it wrong but I would expect the chair to tell you to bring it up in your individual hearing unless other people have had the same problem. In the second stage you will present your case that they have got it wrong and that your daughter will be disadvantaged if she doesn't go to this school.

Even if yours is an individual appeal you will almost certainly still go through the entire process before the appeal panel make any decisions. It is very unlikely you will get to skip part 2 of the hearing.

After the hearing is over the first question the appeal panel have to consider is whether the admission arrangements comply with the law and have been correctly applied. In your case they should decide that the admission arrangements have not been correctly applied. That means you win your appeal unless there are a lot of children affected by the mistake and the school can't cope with all of them.

Keep at it Perma. I think you are doing a grand job here - it's obviously getting very complicated (I missed the post that has now been deleted) and it sounds like the head's comments are muddying the waters.

But, as a non expert, it seems that prh's last paragraph in his/her post Mon 03-Jun-13 14:26:24 is the crux of the matter (sorry prh not sure whether you are male or female!). It strikes me that you will need to get to the broken record stage 'you made a mistake, I double checked it, you assured me it was correct, you are now way past the point of being able to withdraw it'. They are the ones who make the rules, but here they have completely failed to follow them.

It's easier said than done, but try to keep calm and keep smiling. All this will be a distant memory in a year or two. I think you are setting a great example to your daughters and showing them that you will fight their corner. In the meantime, have a !

BTW, fantastic advice from all the experts on this thread. This is what makes mumsnet fabulous!

Hear, hear NigelMolesworth.

Very good luck Perma

I think it is outrageous they have not replied to your request.

wow...I have just read this thread in its entirety (I don't get on her much these days) and am both amazed and appalled. OP I really hope you stick to your guns and that your dd is given the place she was offered. What an enormous cockup.
I am extremely impressed by the experts on this thread - what fantastic help and advice!
Keep us all posted and good luck
xx

Could the school not argue that admitting the child is both a disadvantage to the school in terms of capacity but also not an advantage to the child educationally since she was so far below the pass mark as to give rise to a concern that she might struggle (which would then be an additional detriment to others in the class). If they have evidence that no child has been admitted with that sort of mark for many years, is that something they could adduce? 30 marks off would make me pause for thought, though not s much if I knew of reasons for a seriously under par performance on the day. I think the mark would weigh more with me than wanting to benefit from a mistake. Either way, it's an absolute mess and certainly not one I'd like to be in.

I've been "lurking" (think that is the correct phrase), and also want to wish you luck perma . I can't imagine the stress you must have all been under (well I can a bit as I have my DD1 starting secondary school in September and have been stressed about where she will go for the last 11 years), but hopefully you will win the appeal. They have made a mistake and you should not be penalised. Good luck.

Hi OP
I haven't had time to read the whole thread, and apologise if this has already been mentioned. It will be worth telling the Appeals panel if your DD has predicted level 5 SATS and give them her CAT scores too (if you have them and if they are good). This will prove that she is grammar school material and that she did not perform her best in the exam. It will give them a reason to let her in that is not solely based on the withdrawn offer. Good Luck btw.

How did your dd act to her detriment in reliance on the offer?

Just been lurking and want to wish you good luck! I have no idea how it works but it sounds as if your lea man seems to also think the other lea was unreasonable not least in not answering his requests for information. Surely this all helps at appeal along with the time it took them to contact you. Oh and your lea contacting you out of courtesy doesn't count does it? He even said the other guy should have been doing it. They sound shambolic. Good luck

If school info can prove she's a solid L5 pupil who should have passed then that will negate the 'not grammar school material' argument. Not sure it helps with actual appeal though but good to have as supporting material.

Good luck perma.

I would suggest that the withdrawal of the other school place pretty comfortably covers off detrimental reliance on the mistake.

NigelMolesworth - I'm male but I don't mind being addressed as female on here.

Yellowtip - In a case like this such arguments are irrelevant. The appeal panel shouldn't even get as far as considering prejudice to the child or the school. The decision making process should be:

• Have the admission arrangements been applied correctly? No because the school withdrew the offer too late.

• Has the child been deprived of a place as a result of this? Clearly yes.

• Are there other children who have missed out because the admission arrangements were not applied correctly? Hopefully the answer to that one will be no.

At that point, provided they've come up with the answers I'm suggesting, the decision making process is over and the appeal panel has to admit the OP's daughter.

The most important thing here is that Permashattered is not begging for a place back, nor is she trying to convince a panel that her daughter 'deserves' the place she was allocated originally.

This appeal is simply a case of 'an error was made, you must correct it.'

The school can wring their hands and say that they've never had a pupil at the school with such a low score. The appeals panel should, in fact must, say 'well you do now!'

Appeals panels should be well aware of the fact that some children will have been tutored for two years to pass the exam. If they passed on the day, the fact that they may not get ANY level 5 SATS will not result in their place being withdrawn. If the OP wins her appeal I think she can be pretty confident that her DD will not be at the bottom of the class.