Please be frank: is paying for prep/junior school worth it?

[IHideVegInRice]

Hello, continuation from my previous thread but with a more specific question! We have mixed sex twins - while private is an option at this stage, the local faith school is pretty good.
What can a prep or private junior school offer my DC that could not be matched by state + extra curricular activities?
Looking further ahead, would they be disadvantaged when applying for highly ranked public schools (if we/they feel this is right) later on if they did not attend private school at primary level?
Thanks!

Xenia- do you go out of your way to be offensive? What an obnoxious judgy pants post! Talk about being bitchy

I am intrigued why you think that choosing to work part time in order to be IMHO a better parent than a worn-out one with no energy left for my DCs is self indulgent- and somehow by choosing to work p/t and not send my DCs to an independent school my children suffered?

We struggle with this regularly. At the moment they attend a small village school .Ds in yr 4 is working at yr5 in literacy and yr6 in maths (nc levels 4c and 4a respectively). Dd is year one working with year 2s. So I think the academics are ok. I work pt and take them to ballet, riding and football after school and at the weekend.

I have seen the local preps and TBH the only advantage is the one stop shop aspect. They would keep th till 6 and when they got back they would have done their homework and some sport. On some days this is realy tempting.

However the fees for 2 would be 24k post tax. If I changed to working ft I wouldn't earn the additional 40K we would need to fund it. So we would have to comprise on things like our annual skiing holiday and meals out.When I look at it so far it hasnt seemed worth it to me.

Bella -I think you are the one being offensive here. Who are you to say that your decision to work part time works for EVERYONE! It wouldnt work for me....

Xenia, it's rather simplistic to suggest that people can just pick a high flying career. If only it were so easy! Not everyone has the academic capabilities/personal attributes to become a doctor, lawyer etc. And even if they did, these careers are extremely competitive and I've met a fair few law graduates unable to secure training contracts ....

Bella, good for you for working part time. Having worked full time and part time, it is much easier to retain a balance between work and family when working part time. However what is often overlooked is that often prt time workers are doing full time jobs in part time hours and for part time pay. That's hardly self indulgent is it?

Xenia my love, you are a little bit bonkers about the relative salary thing. I am in the top 10% of wage earners nationally, and there is no way I could put three kids through independent school at once on full fees, out of my taxed income. There used to be cheap little private schools dotted about but so many of them have closed down now. So many people have made sensible career choices and earn good money but haven't got options like that open (although in actual fact in our case we're pleased with the schools the kids attend).

BoffinMum, I agree. We have 4 kids but we are also in high earners' brackets and it would be a huge struggle to put 4 through private at the same time out of earned income.

Having said that, one thing it's often not spoken about is inheritance and the bank of grandparents; this is a reality for many people, we know a number of friends who have fees paid for by grandparents or have had their house bought by their parents or who have inherited quite large sums. Even having grandparents help with childcare can make a big difference.

Sadly we haven't had any of the above, so maybe that's why we are poorer in comparison to many on similar salaries!!!

Gosh Xenia, are you for real? How many young women are going to think: "right, need to go to university x and secure job y so that I can send my hypothetical future children to schools a b or c, without giving a damn if it's a career path I'd like to follow etc"
Absolutely ridiculous!

Xenia, have you ever acually stopped to think what would happen if everyone followed your advice?

• No university lecturers.
• No research scientists (and therefore no new drug discoveries etc)
• No charities of any description.
• No performing arts of any kind.
• No writers, poets, playwrights.

(And that's just a few off the top of my head)

All of the above, and many, many more jobs like them, rely on highly intelligent, gifted people NOT choosing to maximise their income.

IHideVegInRice It might be a sad thing, but in retrospect (being much older now), that is probably the best way to do it. Of course, you would not do it to afford future kids' school fees ... but more along the way of:

• I need to earn a LOT of money... How?
• OK, so these jobs pay a LOT of money... How do I get there?
• They recruit from these unis... Again, how do I get there?

... and so forth.

This coming from someone who already naturally thought like this, although I wish I could turn back time, and then, I would have pushed myself harder. There were certain points in my life/career where I chose the easier path. Had I not done that, I would most likely be making MUCH more money now as evident by those contemporaries of mine who chose the trickier path. They were not more intelligent - they just went for it, whereas I didn't... mainly due to lacking self esteem at the time. Now, I'm going out all guns blazing, but it seems a sudden shift for people around me.

Sometimes, I wish my parents had been more transparent with me, like Xenia suggested. You see, I grew up in a household that regularly had 5 weeks of long haul summer holidays (wouldn't get that at my employer now!), I went to school in different parts of the world, lived in a nice house in the poshest area of the town... and you see... my dad did not even have to work that hard. Mum was a SAHM who is still living in blissful ignorance as to why her DD and hard working Son-in-Law don't have the things they expect us to have with our all qualifications! Somehow, I expected my own life (and that of my kids) to be the same, but then, I realised too late that (1) the world had changed - my dad had less competition (only 7% went to uni in his days), and (2) my dad had a lot of extra income (inheritance) that literally doubled his salary... seriously, I didn't know that!

So DC will learn the value of money very early on...

It depends on where you live and what the local primaries are like. It might be worth thinking about moving rather than forking out money for a prep school. If your local primary is good (as mine is) school fees for pre-prep and prep are a total waste of money. My dd and ds have both gone through the state system. My dd is at a Russell Group uni and is forecast a first and my ds (in Year 10) is doing three GCSEs (maths, history, geography) a year early and is forecast As in all of them. He's doing another 8 (all academic subjects) next year and will almost certainly achieve As and As. He's obviously thinking about Oxbridge, but he's also wondering if places such as the LSE offer courses he might prefer. Wherever he ends up, the state system served him well and I find it quite amusing that people with more money than sense throw money away.

daphnedill - that is an unpleasant and gratuitous insult to someone with whom you happen to disagree. Xenia is entitled to her life choices, as you are to yours.

"I find it quite amusing that people with more money than sense throw money away"

Is that your opinion of all parents who send their children to private school?

"Wherever he ends up, the state system served him well and I find it quite amusing that people with more money than sense throw money away."
suebfg many people a labouring under this view but those of us who pay usuually know that in many cases the state does not serve their children well.

The thread shows some people think women should not work and it is better for children if women stay home. Others think one of the best things women can do is work full time to pay school fees and give their children a better life.
Others have children at good state schools they love and others happily pay school fees and feel their children do better for that. That's wonderful as we are all different people happy to discuss different ideas.

Given the 8% at private schools get 50% of the best university places and make up 80% + of senior judges, huge percentages of the cabinet etc etc in just about every good job there is I suspect those of us who happily choose to pay fees may well have a good bit of sense. However if you cannot afford to pay or have a good state school then gosh loads of state school children do very well at state schools. It is certainly not something to beat yourself up over.

On the women and careers point sometimes it is what can you live without. Some fee paying mothers on here might not have holidays or buy second hand clothes in order to afford £10k to send a girl to Haberdashers for example or go back to full time work. Those are choice. Okay if the mother has more than one child and cannot earn more than the minimum wage then it is not an issue of choice now in 2013 but it may well have been when she picked her career.

Yes, I was lucky to be born fairly bright, but other things are part of choice - working 30 years without a maternity leave more than 2 weeks and no career breaks, picking a well paid career, working very hard, researching careers as a teenager in the library to find one which paid well, not drinking, graduating with prizes rather than having spent my student years drunk, eating well (I am virtually never ill which is a huge benefit) etc etc. We paid school fees when I was 26 years old whilst also paying a full time daily nanny. It was not easy to fund that first set of school fees by any means but manageable and I agree that fees have increase over the years more than inflation - I pay about £14k a year now per child (I only have older children now)

handcream Wed 24-Apr-13 19:24:33

Bella -I think you are the one being offensive here. Who are you to say that your decision to work part time works for EVERYONE! It wouldnt work for me....

errr....I didn't actually say that! I think you need to read the 2 posts again to make sure you understand. I said what suited me and my family- don't know where the words are that said it was the way for everyone

The suggestion that my decision to work part time was self-indulgent ( as if perhaps I was having manicures all day) and worse that my children suffered as a result of my not working hard enough to send them to a private school is appalling- how can an internet stranger possibly know the background and reasons behind my choice?

That kind of comment is breathtakingly arrogant and judgemental. I said what worked for me and my children. There are many reasons why I didn't choose to work full time -which is no one's business except mine and DHs- but the implication that I was doing what was solely best for me, that my children suffered, ( when they have actually done better than some friends who went to private schools!) and that somehow I was pulling my weight, is offensive.

This guy at work brews his own beer at home. To him, we (fellow office workers) have more money than sense. Imagine paying £3.50 for a beer and then standing in a noisy pub drinking it.

We all do things that are a waste of money to people that have different priorities (and income)

My friend spent £20k pa for x years on his DD. She recently got a slate of good but average GCSEs. Although some here might have a good laugh at close to £250k been spent and only getting so so grades, my friend is happy with the results. He always knew that his DD wasnt highly academic but it wasn't as if he was going to miss £250k.

Xenia has always been blunt on the issue of women who choose not to work. We can pretend that money is not important but virtually everyone one this thread needs it to survive.
Women need to have honest discussions with their Children about future careers and it is possible to be happy and solvent. Thankfully i come from a culture where hard work is not looked down upon. My parents encouraged me to aim high and as a result i have the choice of being able to pay for fees.
The best advice my mum gave Mr was I should never give up my career to become a housewife. She said it was the most risky thing i could do as a woman.

Given the 8% at private schools get 50% of the best university places and make up 80% + of senior judges, huge percentages of the cabinet etc etc in just about every good job there is I suspect those of us who happily choose to pay fees may well have a good bit of sense.

You forget about the kids who go to private schools who are simply too dim to get to good unis, or those who get there then drop out or get a 3rd class degree, because they have only got to the uni by being coached to within an inch of their lives. It's well documented that many kids from private schools fail at uni because they have been spoon fed at school to pass exams, way beyond their innate ability.

I don't think explaining how little time you took off work to care for your baby is something to be proud of.

"Yes, I was lucky to be born fairly bright, but other things are part of choice - working 30 years without a maternity leave more than 2 weeks and no career breaks, picking a well paid career, working very hard, researching careers as a teenager in the library to find one which paid well, not drinking, graduating with prizes rather than having spent my student years drunk, eating well (I am virtually never ill which is a huge benefit) etc etc. We paid school fees when I was 26 years old whilst also paying a full time daily nanny. It was not easy to fund that first set of school fees by any means but manageable and I agree that fees have increase over the years more than inflation - I pay about £14k a year now per child (I only have older children now)"

Is 'Xenia' a bot that spouts anti-feminist nonsense every ten posts or so?

Bella, I would love to see a citation of the supposedly "well documented fact that many kids from private schools fail at univ because they have been spoon fed at school to pass exams, way beyond their innate ability."

The evidence collected by the government shows that state school educated pupils are twice as likely to leave higher education, as their private school counterparts. The percentage for privately-educated is quite low, less than 4%.

www.hefce.ac.uk/whatwedo/wp/currentworktowidenparticipation/studentretentionandsuccess/ncr/

I think the comment was along the lines of gvae up work because it suit me (ie self indulgent). Why should working mothers constantly have to be subject to barrage of comment that somehow staying home with a baby is best? It isn't. It can be worse. Now we can disagree on that but it is no more wrong for someone to say I damage my children if I return to work full time when a baby is 2 weeks than to say women who could work and pay school fees but choose to laze around at home instead and deny their child the best education are wrong. They are simply people's views.

Children at the better universities are much less likely to drop out. Children at private schools tend to be conferred a huge benefit. Plenty of them are not tutored beyond their competence in any sense at all. The universities are not stuffed with thick private school pupils who only got AAA because of factory farming cramming. If you look at how well the private ones do after university too you can see that they cannot be as thick as a plank.

Happygardening - you are in the fairly unusual position of educating one of your sons in the maintained sector and one son as an independent boarder.

Can I just say that out here in the sticks day schools do cost under £11000/year. From my point of view (now only paying for one thankfully) that means sinking most of my earnings into one set of school fees whilst juggling demands of 3 yo but it's been just about doable over the last 4 years since the recession hit. DD2 now has a music scholarship which will take a bit off, and we've been awarded a bit of a bursary as well. My husband earns a decent enough wage (not quite into higher rate tax) that we can luckily afford to live on his salary while all of my earnings go into school bills. Have done for the last 11 years now, very thankfully coming to the end of it. It hasn't been at all easy since 2008 and wasn't easy before. We realise that we are very lucky to be able to (just about) afford the choice.

My DC have had many friends at their independent schools in far worse circumstances than us. The worse off ones tend to be in single parent families with maybe a very good bursary or masses of grandparental support. Almost everybody finds the fees difficult (apart from the very few who had a trust fund settled on them at birth to pay for fees)

Shock horror at the thought of private school kids droping out of uni or getting Third Class.

That never happens with kids from non selective state schools