Selective independants

[poppydoppy]

Do they look better on League tables because the standard of teaching is better or just because they select the children most likely to do well?

It can also be code for "no women- we are thinking of expanding into the middl East"

Nit - nah it's rubbish. But it keeps some of us in jobs, so, you know, swings, roundabouts......

To bring it back to the thread subject - there is absolutely no reason why a state educated person cannot have a very senior international role in law or finance or any of the other professions that go in for that sort of thing. The main predicator of whether you are good enough for that sort of job or not is your BRAIN and the way it works (not just the knowledge and experience it has stored up). In some ways state educated people have an advantage over poshos, in fact. Which is nice. Poise is not one of the attributes of being able to be successful in the international area (thank heavens for that). Neither is accent. Some of the most successful internationally facing people I know have very non plummy voices, as it happens. Since many people round the world are either war of or completely antagonistic to perceived British arrogance it is actually an advantage to be less overly confident (with no evident basis in reality).

Therefore, I would suggest that if you want the sort of job that involves travelling round the world being clever and interesting (or, if you like, clever and boring) then having gone to a state school is no drawback, and if you went to an independent you will probably be better placed if it was selective rather than just posh.

But that;s just the view of someone actually doing that sort of job.

wary of. Not war of.

Internationalization is a sort of token concern where I work, but in a different context... it's not really a day-to-day consideration for most of us yet.

Well russians DH is adamant that he looks for more than just brains (lots of applicants have excellent academic track records) And yes, an international outlook is one of the things he looks for.

But that's just his view as someone doing the recruiting. You may take a different view when you recruit.

And yes, of course state schooled pupils can do well. Did anyone say differently? DH is working class and state schooled and definitely not plummy. He has been hugely successful.

But he can't choose state schooled applicants if they don't apply!

Russians good points. Some of those I know who've been tremendously successful internationally certainly fit that profile, that and not being remotely shy of seriously hard work.

RussiansOnTheSpree - quite a lot (actually, most) of the people I know who work overseas or have spent a lot of time working overseas grew up in families which worked overseas or spent a lot of their time travelling overseas for work, so I think you are wrong that a young person cannot have the international outlook firms are looking for. Such people are often also more tolerant of the idea that they could be packed off to work in Nigeria for a few years and their children sent to boarding schools in the UK, because that's the life they had. It's a matter of lifestyle choice - not just ability to do the job, but willingness to live a life like that. If I had been brought up by a nanny and spoken to my parents on the telephone at bedtime every night, I'm sure I would have been more willing to do that to my own family. If I had thought my career was hugely meaningful, I might have been willing to do it, anyway, but I wasn't going to lead a life that felt alien to me for a career that meant exceptionally little to me, except to the extent that it paid the bills.

slip DH also made the point in answer to your observation that too many partners think short term these days, that there is some truth in that, but bear in mind that he and many others have huge capital investment in their firms so it is in their interests to make sure their firms are in good nick when they leave.

Russian- it would be naive to say that the is no old boy network or "people like us" going on, surely?

It would be sensible I'd have thought seeker.

Hi yellow.

I've been thinking about your DD. Remembering my own days as a trainee...

Does she like it?

Yes word she's enormously keen and having a ball. She's a pretty hard worker by nature. I've asked her if she understands the more esoteric stuff (remembering my own days :)) and she gave a sensibly moderated answer. Anyhow, I've told her to spend a significant wodge of her new found wealth on making like outside work good and comfortable and she seems to be doing just that (as in she phoned me from the airport on Thurs to ask if she'd told me she was going away somewhere smart until Sun (no :)). I've also offered to take her babies when she has them but I think there's still a conversation to be had about that.

Oh dear: making life

Word I am involved in recruiting. :)

I am glad to hear that yellow .

russians I assumed you were.

Different folks take different approaches to recruitment. You get a better spread that way too.

I work for a very large multinational and have worked in very large multinationals at a senior level for many many years. I have also been involved in recruitment, both UK, USA and EMEA.

A lot of factors involved in recruitment these days is getting the best person for the job (cheaper!) and very little to do with plummy accents. Especially as we recruit internationally. I have also been involved in UK Graduate recruitment and I would say that the Oxbridge types do tend to come through and this is not because we see Oxbridge on their CV but because they do stand out as being very bright (not all of course, but they do make up a high %).

I am not sure where they went to school, it is not something I have ever bothered looking up as I am not British and had no clue of the British schooling system until I started looking into it for my own children (so if I had seen Westminster or St Paul's on CV it would have meant nothing to me! I would have recognised Eton though).

I second that in the years I have seen a shift in the UK people's profile at the very top of organisations; they tend to be less plummy, less white and more sales-y in the main. The only thing that hasn't changed sadly is that very few are women. We have made very little progress in the gender issue but we all know why.

Nothing in the least bit wrong with using Oxford or Cambridge as an initial flag in recruiting. It's not as though buying a library gets you in any more. In any area requiring clever people it would be pretty daft not to I'd have thought. Quite a fine line between saying it's not because they went to university there, it's because they stand out as bright....

"Nothing in the least bit wrong with using Oxford or Cambridge as an initial flag in recruiting"

You're not in recruiting, are you, yellowtip?

,
"Honestly, it's nothing to do with class, or the Old Boy network- it's just that people from Oxbridge are brighter.........."

I recruit up to a point yes seeker.

People who go there these days are bright seeker, what's the problem with saying that? .

Nothing wrong with saying people who go to Oxbridge are bright. Obviously they are.

Using Oxbridge as a first filter,however................

seeker read the words. I said initial flag, so a strong positive on a first reading of a CV. That in no way excludes other applications. I prefer to be realistic seeker, not pretend.

Very few places use just Oxbridge as a first filter but they may have a small number of universities including those on the list simply because as wordf's husband find so many graduates are clever so there is not much point ploughing through 1000 CVs fom an ex poly where most people are not very bright o find the one pearl among the swine as it were when you can limit your pool to a few good universities (obviously it depends on the job). Even those at the good universities are then competing with many others with CVs which are just as good.

Musical is right that it varies by type of employer and type of work. However in the UK the ability to speak and write clear English matters. That is not necessarily a schooling issue but it is worth children knowing the importance of that in many careers. You need to be able to make yourself understood. I was working on something on Friday from a very bright lady in Switzerland. It was much better than my A level German would have been. However I did change the English to good English hoping I was not insulting her in the process as well as the material changes which was task was all about.

Glad the YP daughter is doing fine. My two are a little ahead of that and doing okay too with a marriage in the offing for one which will be fun as long as I don't have to look at or talk about anything remotely connected to clothing and the like.

Jesus wept.