AIBU to find it hard to resist when others start going for 11+ tutoring, etc, etc, even when my heart isn't in it?

[reawakeningambition]

We are fortunate enough to be in catchment for a good local comp. But also either fortunate or unfortunate enough to be 8.8 miles away from a grammar over the border in a grammar school zone that has top 20 A level results in entire country. DS1's best friends are being tutored for the 11+ for this school.

There is so much against it for us. DS doesn't want to go there (bad); DH is so disgusted with the process of tutoring, etc that he just won't engage (bad); the people on the 11+ online forum sounded pushy in a way that made my hackles rise (bad), he'd spend an hour a day commuting instead of 5 minutes' walk (bad); my high-flying neighbours are all very committed to the local comp. (easy when you got into Oxford yourself from a comp.) (bad); and it would be practically a betrayal not to go there (bad); I hate the sound of boys only (bad); I don't think his social skills would develop as much (bad); bizarrely, the grammar actually underperforms in Oxbridge entry perhaps because the kids are all so "trained" (bad); I thought the 11+ papers I saw promoted a very narrow kind of reasoning (bad); ironically, on this year's results we'd have been too far away to get in anyway (bad).

The overriding problem about "going for it" for me is that this is a year of DS1's life. A year that I could fill with stress, tutoring for an exam I don't believe in and fraught negotiation with DH. I don't think that's conducive to a love of learning.

And yet.....And yet. AIBU not to feel equanimity when there is a culture of "fear and greed" around me where his best friend's parents clearly believe that there is a superior alternative to my own child's intended comp. school that only an elite few can get into and have commented openly (as has the head, unfortunately) on how surprised they are that I don't "want that for him"?

Groan.. please say something nice.

Imnot that's rubbish! A child needs to become familiar with the format of the tests at the very least, and at worst make up for areas missed or shallowly taught at state school (it happens). It simply doesn't follow that once they've passed the 11+ they will need tutoring to "keep up". Tutoring can be done by a professional tutor, or a committed parent. If a child wants to work hard and put a lot of effort into gaining academic skills then somehow, that's wrong, and they should shove over for the "naturally bright" child?

OP I'm glad that you seem to have a genuine choice with a good local comp. You seem as if you've already made the decision to go with that, but maybe have a little doubt. Why not check out the other school, thoroughly? It may confirm everything you fear, or it may be an eye-opener. It's very difficult to make this kind of decision based on hypotheticals, or on a political position. Make the most informed decision you can, and bugger everyone else, make it for your DC alone.

imnotmymum
"I always believe that if a child needs tutoring to get in the school surely they will need one to keep up."

I'm sorry but that's a generalisation and a widely held belief that's not strictly true.
I was tutored in my primary school over 36 years ago and I never needed a tutor when I got to GS - I was in the top sets for everything. Some 11+ tests in this country are incredibly hard - the Essex CSSE one tests VR, English and Maths - the English and Maths test areas that go waaaaay beyond what KS2 Yr 5 children have been taught by September of YR6, ie when the 11+ comes along. Children will need some tutoring and help to prepare themselves to answer the questions that are presented to them. They will need some familiarisation - how many children know what literary devices are, let alone be able to identify various forms such as personification, idiom and pathetic fallacy?? It would be downright cruel not to tutor them for this and allow them the chance to show that they can recognize them and thus be assessed as suitable for GS.
Sorry but it makes me a little sad when people make the inaccurate generalisation that tutored children will struggle at GS and continue to need tutors.

Blimey - they're tutored to pass the SATS but no-one suggests they'll struggle at secondary school, do they?

you're right whistle, I'll do that.

Best of luck, I meant to say, OP!

Ok well I guess I have bright kids so do not see the need for a tutor and we did/do do practise tests for SAts etc and the 11+ I guess we just do it ourself. I do however stick to the point that some children will always need additional help if tutored to the test. I have experienced it within settings and some of the poor things end up burning out.
O apologise for generalising.

Oh and has a point some kids do get their level 5s SAT then end up dropping sets when realise that generally not good at maths etc was just taught to test. My girls have friends like this and I believe this is more demotivating then being taught to their ability from the start.

imnotmymum

"Ok well I guess I have bright kids so do not see the need for a tutor and we did/do do practise tests for SAts etc and the 11+ I guess we just do it ourself."

Whether you DIY or get a paid tutor, it's still tutoring . You can surely only truly claim no tutoring if they've done nothing, not even a practice paper as you're still tutoring to exam technique with a practice paper? . I think many people will agree that only the most stellar children could sit the Essex 11+ English and pass significantly highly enough to gain a place without familiarisation, practice, tutoring or the odd bit of help Have you seen a past Essex paper, I wonder?

There are many parents on here with bright children (predicted L6 KS2 SATs) and I'm afraid that many of those children in state schools have had to have a little help sitting a test that covers all of KS2, before they've even really started YR6. I take my hat off to your children in genuine awe and admiration if they can sit and come in the top 112 out of about 600 girls in the Essex test in the first three weeks of YR6, without being shown how to do KS2 and beyond Maths and then recognize pathetic fallacy and personification, I truly do

I'd say that most children get their SATS tutoring in school

Wanna lay a bet with me about tutored children needing additional tutoring at GS? How about this, I'll put my money where my mouth is and pay £50 to a charity of your choosing, if the children who gained places to a superselective in DD2's class, still need tutoring to survive in GS after a year? If they falter and have to have extra tutoring to cope, then I'll pay £50 to your charity - fair do's? It's a genuine offer and you can PM me details

Anyway OP - I wish you all the luck in the world and will say that only you know your DS and go with your gut feelings

Quite a few of DS1's friends were tutored / coached for the test (by professionals or by their parents) and all in top sets at GS two years later in Y8.

I went to a single-sex grammar which involved a 45min journey each way as did DH, and let's just say we are very glad we live a 3 minute walk from a good mixed comprehensive. Well it's one reason we live here IYSWIM.

For all the reasons you state.

Boys only and the distance are the two biggies. When I was 14 I had no way of getting together with my school mates outside school, because they lived 20 miles away from me. And also they were all girls. IMHO this led to poor social skills and a university experience which was not what it might have been because my attention was elsewhere and I was not great at getting on with others, especially boys. Sigh.

thanks for those posts.

Clary I had similar experience. To be fair on my parents, my local comp. was genuinely failing (hardly anyone got grade C O Level) so they sent me to the Catholic school which of course meant a commute and a huge catchment area.

Like you I then devoted my University time to the late acquisition of social skills.

However, I guess that if you and I had been socially very skilled at 11, we would have made a better fist of it even with the commute, etc.

Thing is I think it's hard to acquire social skills vis a vis the opposite sex (which is one thing I was on about) or wrt good long-term friends in primary school.

Because you are not interested in boys at primary; and while your primary pals can be yr friends all yr life, if you go to secondary where they are not, you will lose touch with them; if the alternative mates live miles and miles away it's tough to stay in good touch with them too. Or that was my experience. Upshot is that I barely have a friend, male or female, dating from earlier than uni. I think that is a bit unusual (happy to be told I am wrong tho)

piggy I did not say all just some but if you want me to choose a child that I know is tutored out of their brains and will not get A* at GCSE go ahead!! As I say some children some not all who started top set with my DDs have dropped down so it does happen to some I repeat some.
I have taught both private and state school, and have seen it. With the economic climate some families have not been able to keep up tutor and child does suffer with grades, maybe their tutor was like a comfort blanket and they could do it but felt they could not. That would be down to some psychology reading !!

My Son is level 6 at year 5 no tutoring...
Anyhow it was just my opinion and i am sure you are right as well and as I repeat SOME children will struggle some not.