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Original poster

AIBU to find it hard to resist when others start going for 11+ tutoring, etc, etc, even when my heart isn't in it?

37 replies

reawakeningambition · 10/03/2013 17:57

We are fortunate enough to be in catchment for a good local comp. But also either fortunate or unfortunate enough to be 8.8 miles away from a grammar over the border in a grammar school zone that has top 20 A level results in entire country. DS1's best friends are being tutored for the 11+ for this school.

There is so much against it for us. DS doesn't want to go there (bad); DH is so disgusted with the process of tutoring, etc that he just won't engage (bad); the people on the 11+ online forum sounded pushy in a way that made my hackles rise (bad), he'd spend an hour a day commuting instead of 5 minutes' walk (bad); my high-flying neighbours are all very committed to the local comp. (easy when you got into Oxford yourself from a comp.) (bad); and it would be practically a betrayal not to go there (bad); I hate the sound of boys only (bad); I don't think his social skills would develop as much (bad); bizarrely, the grammar actually underperforms in Oxbridge entry perhaps because the kids are all so "trained" (bad); I thought the 11+ papers I saw promoted a very narrow kind of reasoning (bad); ironically, on this year's results we'd have been too far away to get in anyway (bad).

The overriding problem about "going for it" for me is that this is a year of DS1's life. A year that I could fill with stress, tutoring for an exam I don't believe in and fraught negotiation with DH. I don't think that's conducive to a love of learning.

And yet.....And yet. AIBU not to feel equanimity when there is a culture of "fear and greed" around me where his best friend's parents clearly believe that there is a superior alternative to my own child's intended comp. school that only an elite few can get into and have commented openly (as has the head, unfortunately) on how surprised they are that I don't "want that for him"?

Groan.. please say something nice.

OP posts:

Activ · 10/03/2013 18:08

Personally if you are close to a good comp I wouldn't even consider it, for all the reasons you state. Actually I probably would consider it, would feel guilty for not going for it, but ultimately decide it was in DS's and the family's best interest not to enter into the nonsense.

fridayfreedom · 10/03/2013 18:14

You have to think of the child and what would suit them.
We don't have Grammars here but if we did I would have considered it for DS but not DD as they are very different.
Would have really struggled with all the tutoring stuff, that was not what was intended when Grammars were set up.
Sounds like you have made your decision though, be brave and go with it if it is best for your child, and forget about what others are doing. Best friend may not get in anyway!

Original poster

reawakeningambition · 10/03/2013 19:26

thanks both.

Activ - yes, that sounds like us!
Friday - yes, I find it very hard to think of the child and not get sucked into the whole thing with my own peer group issues......
I'm not very brave, and not very good and forgetting about other people!

Do you think I should go to the Grammar's open day in June and drag DH in case he changes his mind? their exam is in Sept.

OP posts:

SanityClause · 10/03/2013 19:43

It wouldn't hurt to look at the grammar. The only trouble is, if he really likes it, he could be disappointed if he doesn't get a place.

Not all children who are at grammar are tutored. In fact, of DD1's friends at a super selective, very few were tutored. DD1 did some practise tests at home, but wasn't tutored.

A friend of mine at work was in a similar position to you. Her DD sat for the grammars (there are three areas our DC can sit for near where we live) but didn't get in. She was lucky enough to live in catchment of a very good comp.

She didnt get into the grammars, but is in the top sets at the comp, and doing really well, by the sounds of things.

piggywigwig · 10/03/2013 20:01

I could easily counter much of what you say and allay some of your fears with very positive statements and experiences... but I fear you've already made up your mind, going on what you've written
Be strong and go with your gut reaction - good luck!

Original poster

reawakeningambition · 10/03/2013 20:37

Thank you.

OP posts:

ThreeBeeOneGee · 10/03/2013 20:42

There isn't any rule that says you have to put him in for this. You should do what's right for you and your son (and I say this as a member of the forum mentioned and as someone who actually enjoyed preparing my eldest two for the test).

Original poster

reawakeningambition · 10/03/2013 21:31

thank you ThreeBee,

I just really struggle to make this about him not me IYSWIM. And then I think "oh but if his father is strongly against that would counteract the advantage of stronger science teaching anyway....".....

OP posts:

ThreeBeeOneGee · 10/03/2013 21:45

I would say that unless your son really wants this, don't do it. DS1 really fell in love with his secondary school on the open day. I explained the selection process to him; he was motivated enough to do the preparation and he kept a cool head on the day of the exam. For him (and DS2) it paid off, but not everyone is so lucky. The process of getting into a selective secondary school is not for the faint-hearted; out of you, DP and DS, I think that at least two of you would need to be fully on board with this.

Original poster

reawakeningambition · 10/03/2013 22:06

ThreeBee, I am touched.

I take back what I said about the members of your forum, unless you are a lovely exception.

I think we will go to the open day in June. Then, as you say, if either he or DH has a radical change of mind, then so be it. Otherwise, his education will be better served hanging out with the superhigh achieving families on my right on socialist street!

OP posts:

Original poster

reawakeningambition · 10/03/2013 22:10

thinking about the fainthearted thing....

I'm the fainthearted one. If he wanted to go there, he'd be fine. He likes things like music exams and is used to being looked up to by the other kids at school (it might be a welcome kick but let's not go there). His dad would be fine too if he wanted this.

So, one fainthearted pro versus two confident "he'll go to the comp then Oxford anyway which is much cooler" folk. Conclusion: no action till open day then, assuming no change of mind, it's time to join that school PTA committee at the comp and get the bloody entrance painted properly.....

thanks for making me feel a bit better.

OP posts:

PureQuintessence · 10/03/2013 22:18

But then if you go there in June, and you all love it, there wont be much time for tutoring, so whats the point if you think he wont get in without the tutoring?

Why not have a look at some bond papers between now and then and see how he does?

We went to an open day to an independent when ds was in Y5, and he totally and utterly fell in love. We did the tutoring, but mostly because we had been overseas three years and outside the uk curriculum so ds needed to catch up. He sat exams and interviewed with three independents and got offers from two.

The local state comprehensive he got an offer from is 45 minutes away by bus, and 10 minutes walk either end of that journey, where kids have been beaten up on the bus stop outside school. So we have opted to let him walk 15 minutes to the nearest school which is a selective independent and ds cant wait to start.

CecilyP · 10/03/2013 22:27

If there is absolutely nothing that appeals to you about the grammar school, and, from your post, there really doesn't seem to be, I can't honestly see why you are giving the 11+ in general, and tutoring in particular, a second thought. BTW, one more question to ask, the answer to which may put you off even further - in relation to the top 20 A level results, are children already in the GS automatically accepted into 6th form and does the 6th form take a whole cohort of extra pupils via another exacting selection process?

letseatgrandma · 10/03/2013 22:39

You don't have to get a tutor though-we didn't. DS passed with flying colours without one, but I did do some stuff with him at home.

My motivating factor was that our local coamp was so dire it had changed its name every couple of years. If we had a decent alternative, maybe I wouldn't have bothered?

AmazingDisgrace · 10/03/2013 23:32

I have one at GS and one at the local comp. You do what is right for each individual child. Top set at the comp is just as bright as the GS.

piggywigwig · 11/03/2013 07:38

I echo what TheBeeOneGee and Letseatgrandma have said.

I would also counsel against going headfirst into doing Bond papers until you know the format of the test - sorry PureQuintessence. For example, the Essex CSSE VR exam format and question types aren't strictly like Bond and it would be a shame to waste valuable time on something that isn't appropriate for your son's 11+ test. If it's something you decide you want to pursue, then checkout your regional board on the 11+ Plus forum, there really are some very helpful people out there who give their time very freely to help others in similar situations. I'm delighted to say that ThreeBee isn't in a minority

Have a look at some of my past contributions on here for info, if you have the time

But ThreeBee has pretty much encapsulated it when they've said it isn't for the faint-hearted because as a parent, if you aren't totally committed to it, then you won't cope with the moments when you frequently want to give it all up and wonder if you're doing the right thing

saintlyjimjams · 11/03/2013 07:45

Sounds as if you have plenty of reason not to go in for it. You don't have to tutor though - we didn't (much to various people's horror) and DS2 got in. I agree the 11 plus is a ridiculous exam btw and I was quite happy with the local comp. DS2 really wanted to try for the grammar though so it was a fairly easy decision. If your son doesn't want to give it a go & you like the local school just ignore those around you.

OnGoldenPond · 11/03/2013 08:43

Can't see why you would even consider putting DS in for the grammar exam as you don't like it, your DH doesn't like it, and your DS doesn't like it. Never mind going through the stress and expense of tutoring! And all because some other parents think it is better. You are not really going to make decisions on your DS's education based on other parents probably ill-informed opinions are you?

You have a great comp a short walk away which you all love. Grab it!

Original poster

reawakeningambition · 11/03/2013 09:41

wow, bouquets all round! What a lovely lot you all are. I'm genuinely grateful.

oddly enough, I don't feel remotely stressed about the idea of DS1 changing his mind at the open day then only having three months to prepare for the test. If it was a challenge that we as a family wanted to face, then I think we'd quite enjoy going for it, as threebee was saying. A bit like getting your piano scales ready, that sort of thing. And if he then missed out because of not having been tutored since Christmas well somehow that's ok too!

I shall tell DH and DS that I think we ought to go to the open day. DH will probably storm out saying "no! no! no!" as he did when we visited the local faith school at primary level, which should add some entertainment value at the very least :)

OP posts:

BreasticlesNotTesticles · 11/03/2013 09:49

Provided you don't think DS will feel regret for not taking the exam if his friends get in when the results come out, I wouldn't even bother going to see it.

What's a super selective btw? I see that a lot on here.

letseatgrandma · 11/03/2013 09:59

A super selective grammar usually has no catchment area, so just the highest eg 120 scoring children get a place-it obviously means some of the children are travelling some distance to get to the school each day.

BreasticlesNotTesticles · 11/03/2013 12:34

Thank you!

imnotmymum · 11/03/2013 12:38

You do not need a tutor. I always believe that if a child needs tutoring to get in the school surely they will need one to keep up. Our DD1 did do the 11+ and got into the high school but then we reflected and sent her to the local well respected comp due to all the reasons you mentioned. She is doing brilliantly and my others go there. Go with your heart

BreasticlesNotTesticles · 11/03/2013 13:04

I would agree with you imnotmymum, but other parents do tutor so it isn't a level playing field.

I got into a grammar with no tutoring, when I went the majority of the girls did know each other from the various tutoring groups. And this was 25 years ago.

However, if my dd's are not academic, then I would absolutely not tutor. If they were and stood a chance of getting into our local grammar then I would like them to be used to the tests so they stood a fair chance. Tutoring past natural ability seems self defeating imo, as the dc will then struggle.

ThreeBeeOneGee · 11/03/2013 16:07

at the idea of anyone enjoying learning piano scales.

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