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Education

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Original poster

Would you be prepared to pay more tax to get better state education for all?

706 replies

happygardening · 26/02/2013 16:53

Any other suggestions welcome to ensure that all where ever they live and whatever their background have access to education of the highest quality.

OP posts:
wordfactory · 01/03/2013 09:50

Oh I see now seeker no one on the thread actually said that at all!

You just introduced it to demonise people who don't agree with you further...

Are you like this in RL? When people don't agree with you do they get told they are simply evilists who don't care?

I mean really...we can all drag up shit from other threads or the papers!

socareless · 01/03/2013 09:51

Exactly Word. If I didn't work it will be so easy to pontificate about the less well off and how higher taxes would benefit all. But the reality is that we are all shaped by our experiences/circumstance.
I already support the welfare system through a higher rate tax. I am not complaining because we manage alright even though I don't get to see my lovely DC until 5pm most week days. How can I be the bad guy here?

seeker · 01/03/2013 09:51

Ah. Are you now saying that non taxpayers can't have a view about how tax is organised?

That'll be the end of the universal franchise then. It was nice while it lasted!

seeker · 01/03/2013 09:52

Wordfactory- it was just an aside! Jeez- are you this touchy in real life?

socareless · 01/03/2013 09:57

Who said people who don't pay tax should be silent. You are quite childish seeker.

rabbitstew · 01/03/2013 09:57

socarless - I see what I'm doing wrong now. By doing voluntary work for several hours a day in the local community, I am apparently lazy because I'm not paid for it and am therefore not "hard working." Grudgingly paying tax out of your earnings is probably the laziest way possible of making your contribution to society - so bollocks to your offensive implication that if you do paid work, you are a hard worker and if you don't, you are lazy. There are plenty of lazy people in paid employment and plenty of hard working people who feel they are rich enough not to need to be paid for what they do. And even if you could describe someone as feckless and selfish if they have 11 children by different fathers all funded by the state, you couldn't describe them as lazy if they are managing to look after them all by themselves.

DadOnIce · 01/03/2013 09:58

I wouldn't want to send my children to a school which had a reputation for churning out kids with huge amounts of A and A* grades anyway. I'd always be wondering what was underlying that trend, and I wouldn't want my children going to an "exam factory".

wordfactory · 01/03/2013 09:59

seeker you're at it again. No one said that!!!!!!!!!!

I said, that it's easy to demand someone else pay more tax to pay for things.

Why not pay more tax/any tax yourself if you want more in the coffers?

wordfactory · 01/03/2013 10:01

rabbit that it an bsolutely fine and dandy choice...but I think having made that choice it's a bit of a cheek demanding others who don't have that choice pay more tax!

Original poster
happygardening · 01/03/2013 10:04

Amber I have a feeling the squeezed middle don't view those paying 50% tax as members of this club! We're talking about a very small proportion; "A new 50% tax rate for top earners has come into force at the start of the financial year.The new rate will affect the 300,000 highest earners in the UK, out of the 29 million people who pay income tax."

OP posts:
rabbitstew · 01/03/2013 10:05

When I was in paid work, I was more than happy for my tax bill to be increased. I also have no problem with the fact I get no child benefit, etc. I view any earnings which come into my family as family earnings, not my dh's. After all, what on earth do you think he is actually working for?

seeker · 01/03/2013 10:05

So effectively you are saying that only tax payers have any right to comment on tax policy? Isn't that what you just said to rabbit? Or am I misunderstanding?

wordfactory · 01/03/2013 10:06

dad I think it depends on the DC and the school.

DD turned two of those types of schools down. One private, one grammar. She was horrified by what she perceived to be a greyness.

Now, DS attends a school that churns out the good grades and thus far, both he and I are pleased. It's not grey...or if it is, it's a shade that suits DS IYSWIM. He's a very different kid to his sis. Far more dry. Far more suited to close study.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 01/03/2013 10:07

seeker
Who said that?

Stop twisting what people are saying because they don't agree with you.

Everyone can have view on the tax system. However, I do find it a bit frustrating if the solution people seem to default to is that net contributors like me should be paying more. I think there is a question about those people who are in a position to make some contribution to their own welfare and don't. (please do not try to twist this to say that I think all people on benefits are scroungers or workfare is a good thing etc as those are not my views).

Additionally, lets make sure we are making the best use of the resources we already have before we chuck more money into the situation.

One thing that has bothered me in this thread is the comments about children who are disinterested in education. If significant numbers of children are disinterested in education then we are doing something wrong. We really do need to look at strategies, from a young age, to get children engaged in learning and to get their families to buy into the idea.

wordfactory · 01/03/2013 10:09

End of univeral franchise? Christ, I know you're old seeker but the eighties finished long ago, mate!!!

And no, I didn't say people shouldn't have a view on taxation policy. Anyone can have a view on anythiong can't they?

But that doesn't mena their view isn't cheeky/idiotic/outdated/dull/thoughtless does it?

seeker · 01/03/2013 10:10

"seeker
Who said that?

Stop twisting what people are saying because they don't agree with you."

I'm not. Wordfactory said that rabbit had a cheek to ask for more tax for education because she had chosen not to be a tax payer. Or that's what I thought she said. Happy to be corrected.

Original poster
happygardening · 01/03/2013 10:10

"If significant numbers of children are disinterested in education then we are doing something wrong. We really do need to look at strategies, from a young age, to get children engaged in learning and to get their families to buy into the idea."
I couldn't agree more but how do we go about doing this? IME there is a strong link between poverty and being disinterested in education.

OP posts:
seeker · 01/03/2013 10:11

"rabbit that it an bsolutely fine and dandy choice...but I think having made that choice it's a bit of a cheek demanding others who don't have that choice pay more tax!"

So what does this mean then?

rabbitstew · 01/03/2013 10:14

ChazsBrilliantAttitude - wordfactory did more or less imply I shouldn't be commenting, despite the fact my family as a unit is a net contributor and any tax increases affect my dh and might eventually tip me into the requirement to get paid work, so it is not in my personal interests to say everyone should pay more tax, and when I worked as a solicitor in the City for an over-inflated salary, I did not object to paying tax and would happily have paid more tax....

seeker · 01/03/2013 10:14

""If significant numbers of children are disinterested in education then we are doing something wrong. We really do need to look at strategies, from a young age, to get children engaged in learning and to get their families to buy into the idea."
I couldn't agree more but how do we go about doing this? IME there is a strong link between poverty and being disinterested in education."

Well,a that was one of the issues SureStart was designed to address- but we can't afford SureStart any more. There is certainly a strong link between poverty and underachievement in education. I wonder which comes first, the underachievement or the uninterest?

wordfactory · 01/03/2013 10:15

It is a cheek. A fucking cheek.

To tell someone who has no choice but to work that they should pay more tax, when you choose to do vuluntary work or be a SAHM or whatever.

I'd say that's the definition of cheek!

But I didn't say that view should be silenced. You just made that up. Like you made it up that someone on this thread said GCSEs from state school were worthless.

TBH you're the one trying to silence differeng views. You do it all the time. Anyone who disagrees is demonised...as I say, stuck in the eighties.

Original poster
happygardening · 01/03/2013 10:17

Im getting tired of this personal attack on some people on MN I work with children genuinely care about them and worry that some receive a pretty mediocre education I am genuinely interested in how we as individuals/a nation can resolve this. Surely as a civilised society we should be angry and concerned and also have a moral obligation to do this.

OP posts:
wordfactory · 01/03/2013 10:17

rabbit I did not say you shouldn't comment. I just said it was a cheek. And it is!

Original poster
happygardening · 01/03/2013 10:18

"It is a cheek. A fucking cheek."
Ok I'm going out now.

OP posts:
socareless · 01/03/2013 10:21

Rabbit I find you as a poster very tedious and quick to using words like idiot and stupid. I usually bypass youpost. But since you addresses me, I can't see were I wrote that people who do voluntary work are lazy and neither do I pay tax grudgingly. It is taken before it hits my account. Think it's called paye.
To to be honest I am a but suspicious of people who can't do paid work but can do voluntary work.