Why on earth would you go state if you could afford private?

[Schmedz]

This thread is for Maisie and happygardening . I like dares!

The other thing to remember is that generally speaking, most schools, even the dire ones, get good results for some kids. And mumsnetters kids are generqlly speaking, the ones who are going to get the good results. Mind you, I've been excoriated for saying that before!

Cory - if it helps, DSs school isn't better than the posh schools in terms of exam results but it's a better fit for him and for us.

"I think any apparent benefits are due to the self-selection of the families using the schools rather than the quality of the teaching or other aspects of school life."

I am really not sure about that Juggling. There was a thread the other day discussing in detail how stressed teachers are currently in the state system, many of them who entered the career because of true vocation, now leaving it. I don't want my children taught by teachers that hate their job. A happy teacher is a good teacher.

I am sure private school teachers also have their share of stress, but they are probably not in the right job. The private system appears to have more flexibility in deciding how to lead their schools.

There is a 'nouveau' vibe too that I don't think would suit us.

I've been a teacher and a TA in state primaries Time so I know what you're talking about. Probably why I bust a gut to get my DC's into state schools where they'd be with other children who want to learn. IMHO that's what makes the main difference !

I do think it's odd that people who have actively chosen state schools can't just sit back and feel comfortable with their choice without being openly critical of those parents who have made a different choice - we're not all rich, or snobby social climbers, or stupid enough to pay for inadequate teaching, or parents to entitled, cosseted children.

From what I've read, parents who have chosen private schools are not quite so hostile - generally we understand that there are some great state schools and that school fee cash could be better spent elsewhere in many families.

The only argument I can respect is the ideological one - you disagree with private schools at a population level - rather than the judgemental, prejudiced views expressed by some (from a position of no, or limited, experience it must be said).

Because i don't think private education=better education.
I know plenty people who went to private schools and did very poorly academically, likewise i know plenty people who went to state school and came out with straight A's.
Some children are just most intelligent than others regardless of education though i do think support at home counts for a lot, as does a childs early years experiences.

most=more

Interesting- private school people are always going on about the hostility from state school parents- but on this thread there has only been one poster even remotely hostile. Which, bearing in mind that there are far more state school parents than private ones strikes me as being hardly worth bothering with. And I do think that's how it usually is.

I think most state school parents are perfectly happy to live and let live until somebody starts banging on about how could we possibly know that in fact their £30K + school is infinitely better than wherever we send our kids, however good we poor deluded uneducated people think our kids' schools are, because we could never hope to ever know anyone who had ever gone to such a school. At that point some of us get annoyed.

acceptable - I'm not sure that that sort of anecdotal experience is very useful really, unless there is a way of proving that the people who didn't achieve well at private school would have achieved more elsewhere. Maybe they achieved more than they would've in a different school? Maybe the people who achieved well at state school could've achieved more elsewhere? We'll never know I guess, but I can see how personal experience would inform your decision of course.

Russians - does anyone do that then? Unless they're responding to a question, or feel that they have to defend their decision?

We could afford it, all things being equal when we get to school age. I would only send private if the state schools were terrible tbh.

• I don't see it as value for money, ie I don't see the difference in quality as being proportionate to the difference in cost

• I didn't attend a private school and often compare favourably with peers who did in a corporate world. I'm 'well rounded' and able to communicate effectively at all levels. (I appreciate this doesn't apply to all. I just don't feel I've been hindered at all)

• Unless a child is exceptionally academic I don't see it as a worthwhile investment.

-I'd rather spend it on other things, a nicer home environment, family holidays, sports/hobbies, family days out...

Not all education happens in school

Yes, what Russians said. I have stated my reasons, and yes, they are ideological. But I just keep reading that people who wouldn't use private schools just don't get that they're better, or else they are claiming to both know and despise all the reasons why some people do.

I wouldn't use them, ever, on principle and because it's simply not what I want for my children. I'm sure there are many many reasons why some people do.

Agree it's not particularly useful just personal experience. However some people do seem to think that all children who attend private schools will do well academically and it really isn't true. I just happen to think there are many more determining factors on a childs educational outcome than what school they attend.

Adeucalione Yes. Yes they do. Sadly.

Nit - yes, I wouldn't ever use private schools. I'm lucky that DD1 is at a better school than the posh ones, but DS isn't and who knows where Dd2 will end up when the time comes.

If the state schools were good, I would have no problems with sending DC to state school. In fact, we are probably going down that route for infant school, but are likely to switch to private afterwards.

I went to state school in another country (grammar during secondary years), my brother went to private school first during his primary school years, and then switched to state (grammar). Weirdly enough, he went to the private school because I - as a teenager - convinced my parents to do so. I used to help out at the private school, and couldn't help but notice how much better behaved the children were.

If I wanted to offer my DC the same experience I had at state school all those years ago, my only option would be to go private. We lived in an affluent area, and at the time the local state school had maximum class sizes were 20. At my school, they were around 15-17. Class sizes are around 30 where we live now. The same goes if DC qualified for grammar school.

I would want a selective school for DC as I attended a grammar - and seriously would not have coped in a comp. From my experience, those kids who weren't as able would label knowledge as 'uncool', and hence, could impact your motivation. I'm afraid that does happen a lot even now. Maybe I lack the political correctness of some Brits, because where I'm from splitting out secondary school by ability is the norm. But who knows?

Long story short - if state school could offer small class sizes (max. 20), and also had grammar schools throughout the country with equally small class sizes, it would be a no-brainer, and I would choose state rather than pay for private. But I guess there's a greater chance of a pink hippopotamus falling down from the sky than that happening.

Dh and I work 2.5 full time jobs between us, have a 3 bed semi in a dodgy road, one cheap holiday visiting relatives by the sea (in uk) certainly no health clubs and still need bursaries for the dc to attend their schools. We work bloody hard and make lots of sacrifices to give our dc what we consider to be a decent education.

Now maybe people can understand why I get a bit touchy about posters claiming private school parents are privileged and using private schools to socially climb and gain contacts, and all the other sweeping statements.

It upsets me that people don't understand how hard it is to provide a decent education for your dc.

Believe me, I would much rather use state educate, cut back on the crazy hours we (espicially dh) work, and maybe even move house.

I get annoyed by a particular family near us who live in a big house, go skiing, regularly take 2 other holidays a year, belong to an expensive health club, drive expensive cars and generally fritter away loads of money. They often complain that its unfair that we can afford private education when they can't.

Social climbing, oh that's a funny one. So maybe all the other parents at my daughter's school are aspiring to climb the social ladder by sending their kids to the same school as mine. I had no idea I was so influential .

Couldn't care less what social class/income level my kids' friends are - but I do care that my kids and their friends have aspirations of some kind.

Like 93% of the population we couldn't afford to send ours to private school.

Now that statement is misleading. Seeker says that only a very small percentage of people are rich/privileged enough to privately educated their children. So as 7% of children are privately educated we (wrongly) jump onto the assumption that only 7% of parents can afford it. As this thread demonstrates, there are plenty of people who could afford it, if they wanted to make it a priority, but they don't feel either don't feel the need, or they resist on moral/political grounds.

That includes reasonably affluent people who would have to go without a holiday or downgrade the car, or postpone the loft conversion, but it would be do-able, to the very wealthy people who do not use private education for whatever reason.

barnsleybelle
Private schools tend to be primarily focused on academic achievement and children often come out of these schools with an inability to understand/mix/communicate/tolerate people from all walks of life and backgrounds. They are often taken to and picked up from school in cars and so miss out on the social aspect of commuting to school with peers. They are often intolerant/judgemental of others and fundamentally live in the private school bubble and are unable to relate to the holistic and individual realities of people they encounter later in the real world

I'm really interested to know how much research you have done in reaching this conclusion as it doesn't fit with my equally anecdotal experience. My children travel to school on public transport. They mix with children who don't go to private school outside of school. DH is an immigrant from north Africa and many of his friends are also immigrants. Quite frankly,I suspect that, a white MC child living in some leafy part of the country rather than a London Borough with a very diverse population is in more of a bubble than my children even if they do go to a state school. You just can't generalise.

Well, fair enough Fell - I guess not all of the 93% couldn't afford the option.
But I think you'd find by far the majority don't have the option anyway due to it's cost. And that often seems to get forgotten on Mumsnet school choice threads - hence I thought I'd start my post with that thought.

I do dislike the sense of entitlement that some private school kids end up with.
And there is no way that 3 As at A'level from Westminster or whatever is the same achievement as 3 As from Bognor Regis Community College (if it exists). To me having good exam results basically handed to the children on a plate takes away much of the sense of achievement. They probably kid themselves that it doesn't though.