71% of 'top people' went to private school, or grammar school

[joanbyers]

Link:
www.suttontrust.com/research/the-educational-backgrounds-of-the-nations-leading-people/leading-people-report.pdf

"Ten leading independent schools accounted for 12% of the leading people for which schools data was available. These are: Eton College; Winchester College; Charterhouse School; Rugby School; Westminster School; Marlborough College; Dulwich College; Harrow School; St Paul?s Boys? School; Wellington College (see table 1 for top 100 schools). "

It's interesting that these leading schools are pretty much ALL boarding schools, the significance of which is that the fees tend to be around £30k/year (so I reckon this is as much about parental connections as anything else)

Wellington does not have a glittering academic reputation, sending handfuls to Oxford. Charterhouse, on £32k/year, has a fraction of the Oxbridge admissions of the nearby Royal Grammar School, Guildford (fees only £13k/year) - which is present in the list, at #58, but behind schools for the rich but dim such as Bradfield

The leading independent schools that aren't exclusively boarding schools (and therefore implying super-rich parents) are all in London, which is home of the elite.

The leading comps are Holland Park School, where lefties send their kids for ideological reasons and which has had £10s of millions lavished on it, and Haverstock School, which is likewise a popular choice with the left-wing elite.

Just 10% of 'top people' attended a comprehensive.

Of course these figures are calculated many years in arrears, so not the best guide for the future, but the 44% of leading people who attended private schools I guess will increase, as the 27% who went to grammars die off (i.e. most of the grammar schools listed are now comps)

Word. I don't think your extended family will criticize reading and many will encourage this. In my earlier post I mentioned that in later years children work hard in comps but not from day 1 not that they never do two hours homework a night but I am not going to monitor. In fact a parent of a very high performing state super selective school was moaning that her son had hardly any homework compared to the comp his peers went to. It depends how easy your child finds the homework. Some better understood take an hours others done in ten mins. Comps in some places would never set that level of homework because some children do not have a quiet place to work. Take a large family with kids sharing bedrooms. Much easier with one or two children. Also some kids have to work, look after sick parents. I suppose that is their fault they do not get to a top uni. When you are 30+ who cares what uni you went to if you have drive, ambition and are good at your job. Those peopl will always rise up in a work environment because they will stand out. Not all companies are these public school bastions that we hear. I have worked in many mulinationals and not one had an Oxbridge bias.

The last feedback on questionnaires at our school was that several parents complained there was not enough homework, and several complained there was not enough. Make of that what you will....

I am not a lover of homework from a young age but have always encouraged reading and introduced my kids to great authors. That is different but it is homework for homework's sake that I do not approve of. Some parents seem to think the more the homework, the better the school. This to me is not of any value.

Ox - to be fair, the poster didn't actually mention Oxbridge. Basically parents were having a moan about homework and about how it was interfering with their children's social lives. I was just making the general point that people aren't prepared to make a commitment to their children's education should really complain about the outcome.

I don't monitor the time my spend doing homework on a day to day basis at all. All I know is that the amount of time they appear to be doing homework varies each day (some nights they do none at all, sometimes much more than 2 hrs) but the school handbook says it should average at about 2 hrs a night in Y9/10/11. I can't imagine it's exceptional.

.. meant to post shouldn't complain.

Well, if you look at GCSE results nationally the average number/grades attained isn't that high. So, if 2 hours homework is not 'exceptional' at these schools then I guess that backs up the argument that homework is a waste of time :)

APMF

I do wonder if you had somehow landed in our geographical situation, with a great comp and no private school, indie, or grammar under 45 mins drive away (and it's crap unless you want to play golf) whether you might have sent your dcs to our comp. I mean if everyone you knew socially whose older children were off to good unis on good courses had sent their dcs there.

Conversely, if I was living in an inner city where the comp was not working and friends had their dcs at private I might have to be pragmatic and consider indies etc. I'm fortunate that my pro comp values coincide with the reality on the ground here.

All I'm saying is, the comp system can work, and it has a better chance if doing so if people from all backgrounds have a stake in it.

The Sutton trust included our school in a report about how some state schools have good links and practices to get students into top unis.

APMF

It depends what they are learning about when they do homework. The grades might be even poorer without homework. Even poor grades or basic functional maths and literacy can enrich lives. Knowing about the civil rights movement, the holocaust for example can alter people's behaviour towards one another.

IMO, learning is never a waste of time, regardless of the outcome in exam terms.

I don't think anyone here is complaining. On the whoe we all seem to be happy with our choices for our own reasons which are different. By the way always like to get the kids to do their homework before I'm a celebrity!

Good post Ox and it depends on the starting point.

Ox, my DS went to a (well-known) indie. He would have gone to your comp if we lived where you live.

Our local comps looked too risky and we were not prepared to experiment with our DS's education. Selfish? Possibly.

That's how it was.

I would love to be in your geographic location. I could think of lots of other things to do with the £15k pa :)

As I said upthread, if everybody had to go to a comprehensive then people like me would make use of my economic advantage and buy a house outside the school gate of the nearest high performing comprehensive. Locals would get pushed out because they can no longer afford the property prices. Back to square one.

That is obviously not happening in ox's location or mine where most people use comps so that is your theory.

Lottery places would soon stop that practice in areas where it does happen which may be more London-based. All you need is a diverse population. You can buy a house within short walking distance of a top comp near us for £160k. It is right next to an area of big posh houses and the kids go to the same school. A far fairer system. After a few years of this mentality the comp system may be achieving higher results. Again it is all theoretical but if private schools were abolished people may just use private tutors. All in all I am happy for people to choose private if it suits their children as long as they do not assume that it is the only way to be considered investing in their child's education and they don't knock the state system that the majority of people in this country use.

If all children went to comps, all these 'top' people mentioned in the thread title would be motivated to use their influence to ensure that state schools countrywide were good enough for their own dcs, and their friends' dcs rather than for 'other people'. They might even fund it properly. The comp results would improve as all the selected school pupils would be in the mix.

Imagine.

It obviously depends on where you live.

School X in my neighbouring working class town has an academic record equal to many Indies but its location isn't that nice so your middle class indie exile isn't exactly going to start a biding war for the three bedroom postwar terrace by the school gate. Contrast that with the catholic school at the more prosperous neighbouring town. Houses in the catchment area cost £70k to a £100k more than same house two streets down.

Having a good school on its own isn't going to automatically drive up prices.

And its not my theory :) There has been oodles of newsprint devoted to the subject.

The funniest thing I once heard was a mother who decided to send her children private (very unusual in our area) because she did not want her darlings going to school with parents who drive vans as part of their work. I was speechless as the daughter of a white van man whose three daughters went to rg unis but I was considered ok because I was a professional. That kind of attitude whilst not common is something I really dislike.

In that case I would leave the good academic school to those happy to live in that area and produce a future pm. That will soon change people's perceptions.

Is that any different from the parent who doesn't want their DC to go to same school as privileged children?

@ox - Those 'top' people will choose a residence near a high achieving comprehensive in a nice leafy middle class area. I fail to see how this will affect the failing inner city comprehensive.

Yes it is. I would rather my children went to school with a diverse population because that represents real life and they need to learn to deal with different people from different backgrounds. I would not send them to a school where the children were all price ledges because in my view and my view only it would give them a distorted view of what is normal. My ds and dd are at schools where there are some very rich people and very poor and it is good grounding for life.

My SIL told me that she wanted her dcs to go private so they'd be 'rounded' individuals.

I've often wondered what shape she considers my dcs to be? Irregular polygons, I suppose.

A lovely guy I met at uni from Eton told me when he was drunk that he didn't realise 'people like me' went to state schools.

Some of the people I have found most inspirational are those who came from very poor backgrounds who have a achieved a lot themselves. Two of these went to Cambridge (from comps) and the others have not done as well academically but have become md by using their brains. Not only that but the young girl who I worked with who had to lie to her mother about going to the library to do her homework because her mom relied on her for cheap childcare for younger siblings and would never have approved of the library. To me she is a top person and I wasn't my child to go to school with somebody like that to teach them how to graft for themselves and to teach them that they are very lucky and should be grateful rather than always chasing the next material goal.

Actually Ox my kids are long and thin at state schools. Maybe I should fill them up with more junk food after all that is what us normal people do don't we? At least by the 'top people ' who run the daily telegraph.