So Eton, everything I expected and more

[JoanBias]

My DS is at a private school, so I have experience of private schooling, but my word Eton was like another world.

Not just the school, but the people there.

There was one prep school being shown around, all in tweed jackets, and to a boy the spitting image of Draco Malfoy (well there was one Chinese boy, but otherwise....).

One of the mothers doing the tour was not quite right in some respect, I'm not sure how but something wasn't wired up correctly or something. She was immacuately dressed, 6-inch heels (pretty daft considering the confirmation letter warns about having a long walk), but she was just bizarre. The admissions tutor said 'we have a waiting list of 80 boys and typically 35% of these will make it through', and she asked afterwards 'so 80% of the boys from the waiting list make it through?', and it was then explained again, but you could kind of hear the cogs going round and she clearly didn't get it. She had asked several other similar questions; e.g., it was explained that some Houses are catering and others go to a central cafeteria, so she then asked 'so they all eat in the cafeteria'? She pointed at the Fives Court and asked me 'what do they play here?' I said 'Fives' 'Is it squash?', she said. 'No, Eton Fives.' 'So is it squash?' It seemed as if this woman had had the benefit of the 'Finishing School for the Terminally Dim', because she was otherwise every inch the presentable upper middle-class wife.

Another family had a son who looked the prototypical pre-Etonian, and sure enough Daddy spent the tour braying on about his House when he had been there.

The facilities were extremely impressive, although they didn't bother to show us any of the academic parts, and basically the impression was 'if your son is incredibly pushy and self-motivated, send him here and we will teach him to be entitled'. They said 'every year we reject about a third of the highest performers on the test', essentially because they aren't pushy enough. (The House Mistresses seemed quite nice though.)

Fantastic training for future managing directors and whatever, but not for us.....

Well worth it to sign up for a tour, very illuminating. They take about 100 a day from what I can see, so obligation at all....

I would agree with choice but my DSs have all done their first choice and it hasn't cost school fees. If they had gone to Eton they wouldn't have chosen differently but I would have been a lot poorer(or in my case in debt).

Actually I bloody hate money, numbers on screens, silly little round metal discs....the lot of it. I hate the fact that it buys freedom for some and enslaves others.

I think that is why I shall never be content....some have too much others have none. I won't rest until I can see capitalism is on it's knees. Do I want my children to be content....hell no, I want them to do something extraordinary and I want them to be fired up and active, inspired and motivated, impassioned and committed to getting things done and I know that they are more likely to be able to do this with an education.

It doesn't bother me at all that people have more. I wouldn't swap lives with Xenia for anything.

No but someone on benefits of £70-80, someone in the states on the minimum wage who can not afford health care, a minimum waged worker here having to make do with feeding their children soup for two days, these people would and that is what is wrong with our society. So why be content.....content for who? for you?

Putting ownership of islands and discussions of syntax to one side for the moment Xenia, I wonder if you could answer the question I asked you yesterday:

You said : But I don't think it's any different from someone identifying someone else as white. I do think we know there are differences. We have a huge history here of our grandparents being dreadfully treated by the Japanese in WWII. No way do we confuse the Japanese and Chinese although I personally am not sure how you can tell on looks the difference but am happy to be enlightened. My children or some of them are very into South Korea because of computer games. I think we do know some differences. I suspect we are a lot better than most Americans are about knowing their international geography.

Xenia - what on earth is your point here?

Plenty of women don't take loads of time off nor want to. Although the more who do the harder it is for those who don't to convince an employer they won't be like that. That is why these personal decisions are so political and have such implications for other women

Once again you have got the problem bass ackwards Xenia.

The only decisions that impact women are the decisions of men to discriminate against us. It is the decisions of men, taken in a business context that is dominated by men and macho thinking that has women where we are, forced to pay for having children, forced to choose in ways that men are not. It is up to men to decide how much they will make us pay for our biology and for the most part women pay and pay and pay.

(Unless they happen to live somewhere enlightened like Scandinavia.)

Communism didn't work.
Doing my family history my ancestors were agricultural labourers, with lots of children and didn't have two pennies to rub together. They used education, had less children and got out. My grandfather was the eldest of 12 started work as a farm labourer and ended up owning his own farm. Others left completely and had all sorts of careers. They were not content- they did something about it. I had all the choices and I am content.

People don't value education enough.

It is also probably better not to be content- it gives you something to strive for. WhenI say that I am content it doesn't mean that I don't want to learn new things, have new experiences - merely that I don't hanker after some of the things other people find necessary.e.g. Cars don't interest me- as long as it gets me from A to B with a largish boot I couldn't care what it is.

I don't agree if you work for yourself as a woman and earn a lot of money you are on a tread mill. If I can earn the weekly minimyum wage in an hour which if about so (not that I work all hours like that) then surely I am the one off the treadmill whereas Rhubarb working hard in 5 hour stretches at a hotel carrying bags etc is surely not the one who is free from the burdens of working to pay school fees but the unfree one?

Although if we get back to what makes people happy internally and mentally it is levels of seratonin in the brain. You get those higher through exercise which breaks a sweat, unprocessed basic foods and being outside which perversely is like those of our ancestors 150 years ago had every day for nothing as agricultural workers and further back as hunters and gatherers. Argfuably Rhubarb carrying heavy loads around might feel and be better than someone sitting at a desk all day. I am much happier the days I cycle to the gym to swim or do the garden (or at the other extreme am alone on the island but it is the same routes to happiness - sun good food movement and loads of sleep when youc an get it).

@math I can't speak for other professions, but in mine, it's fairly obvious that while Scandinavia talks a good fight (collectively) actually there aren't very many women in positions of power. Maybe they are all being doctors. But I don't think they are. It really is striking how few women from Scandinavian countries one sees at high level profession wide things. The female representation at partner/director level in Eastern Europe is much much better.

Not that this proves anything, really - I took all the maternity leave to which I was entitled, and I have negotiated additional holiday and built in 'sort of working but not actually prepared to leave the country' time to coincide with school holidays. I'm big on Ts&Cs me, and I make sure my firm knows it. I think it helped my current situation to have been headhunted and to have played very hard to get, but I e always been like that even when I was forging my reputation. My view has always been don't ask, don't get.

Xenia - surely you agree that a woman earning lots of money doing something she hates just in order to pay the school fees is on a treadmill?... Yet you do witter on about how the best thing a woman can do is earn lots of money in order to pay the school fees.

If all women actually enjoyed high-earning careers and 2 week maternity breaks, I'm sure more women would go down that path.

Personally, I find it quite pleasurable to be able to work for nothing. Money is so tiresome - one feels as though one is being valued for less than one is worth, whereas when money is not part of the equation, one can value oneself in a far more personally satisfying way, because one is looking more at the difference one makes than the money one earns (she said loftily... ).

In my area quite a few women in Scandinavia are in senior positions and have children, take a year's paid maternity leave etc etc. I work in the City and only know one person who took 2 weeks ML and that was only with her first child. She had more normal ML with her subsequent ones and regrets doing that with her first.

It is a shame this thread has changed from the original post about Eton. I'm more interested in life at Eton than how much ML women take.

@rabbit that's a bit silly. Most men don't have high earning careers. The economy can only support so many, after all. Even if every single high warning man was replaced by a woman most women wouldn't be high earners.

On the other hand, I don't know any woman in the city who didn't take full mat leave entitlement. But perhaps things were different 25 years ago. People seem to forget that that's when Xenia is talking about. Days which are long gone.

High earning. Sorry. Don't know if it was autocorrect or bumpy trundly train caused that mistake.

Well I have been poor and I can say that I much prefer not to be. In poverty there is no choice or freedom.

The picture of the happy poor is a patronising construct. As is the the picture of the unhappy rich.

Both designed to keep the masses in their place. Particularly women who seem more inclined to fall for this type of crap...

Most of the people around me are wealthy and though it doesn't protect them from everything, and they have their gripes, most of them don't know they're born. They don't have any of the day to day struggles that the poor endure. The sort of troubles that sap people and rob them of their health and happiness. They are not trapped.

What's a bit silly, Mordeon? That more women would go down the path of high earning careers and 2 week maternity breaks if they actually enjoyed that? I don't see that it's silly to say that more would if they wanted to, because they ENJOYED life being that way? Fact is, most women DON'T want 2 week maternity breaks, nor do most women prioritise high earning over all other considerations, including personal enjoyment of career... I agree it's silly for people to work for nothing, however!

I would much rather not be poor and would go to great lengths to avoid it. I am happy with my lot because I am sufficiently well off not to worry about bills and daily life and have enough money to spare for one or two nasty surprises, and have enough leisure time to enjoy the world around me. I am also perfectly well aware how quickly life's circumstances can change.

Exotic, oh yes in terms of contentment and satisfaction with what I have, I am happy enough....Cars, houses or clothes, outward displays of wealth, no interest what so ever. Content with life in general, no not at all, that might be boring. DP is so laid back he is horizontal, incredibly bright but dull to be around because he has no oomph. Love him dearly though I really wish he would be a bit more of a crusader! instead of sitting back. If he was I might have far more choices with DCs education.

Money is so tiresome some have too much, some have far too little of it and I agree with rabbit, working without financial incentive can be very rewarding. I enjoyed voluntary work. Would love to find something to do now but too busy at the moment.

I guess my question is, once you have got yourself into a position where you are not in poverty, should you carry on acting and thinking like a poor person desperate to acquire more and more in order to feel secure? Or should you actually, when you reach a certain point, adjust your mentality to fit your means?

I don't think it's about outward displays of wealth. Though I do love a nice car and expensive clothes .

What wealth brings is choice and freedom.

When I wanted to continue with my education, I just did it.
When I wanted to move house, I just did it.
When I wanted to have children, I just did it.
When I wanted to give up my job, I just did it.

yellowtip I think that was quite uncalled for. I am being very very honest on this thread and personal comments about me being self centred and small are not necessary at all. Does it make you feel good to put others down who are just sharing opinions?

I'm sorry your father lost all his money. I have said many times that I often given myself a kick up the backside and remember why we are so very lucky compared to other Mumsnetters who have lost children, who are right now sat at the bedsides of their kids, watching as their small bodies are ravaged by cancer. Mumsnet reminds me of how much we have, but nevertheless when you go somewhere like Nice and Monaco of course you do feel a little envious at times, you do wish you could have a home overlooking the sea with snow capped mountains behind you. It's only human. The test is whether or not you continue with those feelings or you come back down to earth and realise how much you have. If you find me to be self centred and small based on what I've said in my posts then I can only assume you have completely got the wrong end of the stick and not read them properly. You may have read where I admitted to being envious whilst on holiday and not read the para afterwards.

I very much agree with wordfactory and she has put succintly what I've been trying to say. That the happy poor is a myth as is the happy rich. None of us are particularly satisfied (as a whole), the rich may have all the money in the world but when it comes down to health or happiness or contentment, these are things that money cannot buy and I'm sure that when a mother looks at her sick child she would give anything to make them better. Yes when your world is turned upside down you soon realise what is most important to you and it's not your own private island or fancy yacht or large house or even the private education, it's the health of your loved ones.

And it is the minions who keep this economy turning. The waitresses, the cleaners, the shop assistants, the refuse collectors, the road sweepers, the factory workers; they all work hard, pay their taxes and keep the country afloat. Without the working classes this country would be fucked, as would every other country because we are the backbone of society and it's such a shame that people who rely on those services, who take them for granted can have such snobbish attitudes towards those who provide them.

I'm not forgetting inverse snobbery either. If people were truly content with their lot, threads like this wouldn't have the time of day. People wouldn't spend hours justifying themselves or having digs at others or trying to convince people that they are happy with their lot. It's only human to want more, to feel unfulfilled. We've been comparing ourselves with our neighbours since the year dot. It's a mistake however to think that money brings fulfilment. As others have testified to, whilst it may reward you with more choices, it doesn't quite stretch to filling that gap.