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Original poster

Isn't it about time we got rid of homework, at least for the under 14s?

251 replies

Solopower1 · 17/10/2012 18:16

Just heard on the radio (PM Programme, Radio 4) that there are moves afoot to stop setting HW in France. They did this years ago in Spain. Didn't catch any more details (eg what age children) but they are considering lengthening the school day by half an hour so that the kids can do their HW before they go home.

Apparently there is no research that proves that doing HW benefits a child! (Which isn't to say that it doesn't, of course, but still).

I think it would be a great idea to abolish homework, at least for those under 14. It has always been a huge burden in our household, and caused so much tension. Plus the school day is really short. In Scotland there are no classes on a Friday afternoon - not even for sixth formers.

It wouldn't stop parents from going over their kids' HW if they wanted to, nor would it prevent anyone from doing any amount of extra research. What it would do, however, is make things just that little bit more equal. It's not fair, imo, that children from disadvantaged backgrounds who get no help (or might not even have anywhere to do their HW), are still expected to produce the same quality of work as a child whose parent does it for him/her.

What do other people think?

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amillionyears · 18/10/2012 22:43

11 and unders,spellings and times tables

Year 7 ,bits so teachers know where pupils are at,and how much they are listening in class.
After that,yes to homework,not so a pupil is overloaded.
I never did my kids homework.I always thought that if they cant do it at home,their teacher needs to know they cant do it.

Ponders · 18/10/2012 22:51

Have just googled SATs, Solo

'The tests were introduced for 7-year-olds for the academic year ending July 1991, and for 11-year-olds in the academic year ending July 1995.
Similar tests were introduced for 14-year-olds for the academic year ending July 1998 but were scrapped at the end of the academic year ending July 2009.'

I think there were unpublished trial runs in each previous year for all 3, but I remember my cousin, whose DS1 was in the guinea pig years cited above, complaining bitterly about it.

'The National Curriculum was introduced into England, Wales and Northern Ireland following the Education Reform Act 1988' so the kids who did the first KS1 SATs in 1991 were the first to experience the National Curriculum too.

Original poster
Solopower1 · 18/10/2012 22:58

The thing is, once you get to the lofty heights of smug grandmotherhood, you wonder what on earth everyone is getting so steamed up about, and why they are ruining this precious, precious time, when they have their kids to themselves and could just be enjoying watching them grow up.

What is the worst that could happen? That your child doesn't get into the university of her choice? That she is unemployed for a while, or has to do a crap job for a few years? That could happen anyway, to anyone, even someone who could read when she was five, got first prize for Maths when she was seven and was top of the class at Physics when she was eight. Because, surprisingly enough, none of that matters to the manager who has to make the cuts.

What I think is that it is not about our children at all. It's all about us, isn't it? We want to be the best mum on the block with the cleverest kids. Don't you? I did - and failed miserably of course, as most of us do.

But, you might make it. And you might be the best mum of the cleverest child for a year or two. But one day, one day you'll look back and think, 'All that time wasted, all those tears. And for what? Here you are, dear son, aged 43 and still living at home, with nothing for company but your Membership of Mensa and your dusty school trophies.'

Because (they say) it's lonely at the top.

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exoticfruits · 18/10/2012 22:59

Some parents like it because they can sit them down with a worksheet and don't have to do anything themselves. An evening of card games, chess, cooking etc would be much more beneficial.

Sparklingbrook · 18/10/2012 23:04

Brilliant post Solo. I feel sometimes that parents think the more homework kids get the more successful they will be. Lots of time spent up in their bedrooms studying and being all academic and focussed.

But who know what he future holds and you only get to be a child once.

Original poster
Solopower1 · 18/10/2012 23:05

Sorry - went off on one there, Ponders. That's interesting what you found out about SATs. At around that time teachers really started struggling with more and more admin, having to mark piles of projects for GCSE course work. That must have had an effect on the kids too.

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CheerfulYank · 18/10/2012 23:12

It is more than a bit silly. A friend and her husband just went into complain about the amount of homework being given to their daughter who is in second grade. Hmm She's eight. It's ridiculous.

It can take literally hours for a six or seven year old to finish, then it's bath and bedtime already. Where is the family time?

brdgrl · 18/10/2012 23:16

exotic, we have time for all that and homework and chores (maybe not all in the one night, and we are more likely to watch a show together than play poker). Like I said, I just don't see these rivers of homework that some people are talking about!

But also, all this 'just let them be children' and (paraphrasing i know) 'its all about the parents wanting to have clever little dumpkins'...its a convenient way of dismissing an alternative viewpoint, but it isn't really fair or true. I can see how homework has improved my own life and helped me learn (and as I say, I did enjoy it)...I can see how my DSD learns better through hers...I can see easily how a lack of practice in maths and languages, in homework, is affecting DSS's mastery of the subjects...and I know, as an academic and an educator, that if DD is not given homework, I'll be setting it for her myself.

Arguments about the quality of homework or the variety of homework or the over-involvement of parents in homework, or the advantage of privileged children over less privileged children....these are all issues which need to be addressed, but to deal with those by advocating that it be done away with all together is like dealing with problems with the NHS by abolishing it.

Ponders · 18/10/2012 23:17

oh, don't apologise, Solo, you are quite right!

thing is that the National Curriculum as such was a really good thing - so were Inset Days (fondly known as Baker Days originally, who else remembers that? Grin)

it was the testing, & teaching to the test, & worrying about results & league table positions, that got out out of hand

colditz · 18/10/2012 23:22

I do my children's homework for them. I research it, dictate it, and they quickly write it down, and then we Move On. It takes about twenty minutes.

And I know it's wrong, and I know it's dishonest, and I don't care. My children will never be nine and six again and researching Tudors and Hw Our Family Is Different (it's not) is not going to ruin my pleasant times, or exacerbate our bad times.

The end

Ponders · 18/10/2012 23:24

incidentally, do any primary schools currently have designated maths or science or English teachers, or are classes still taught everything by their class teacher?

I was a parent governor in the 90s & it was clear to me then that different teachers had different gifts, & as all kids didn't get into all teachers' classes I thought it would benefit everybody if a bit of secondary school-type subject specialism was practised

but the Head didn't agree (probably because it would have meant more pupil movement in the corridors & she didn't much like pupils at all, even when stationary) so it didn't happen.

Original poster
Solopower1 · 18/10/2012 23:26

Agreed, Ponders.

Fair enough, Brdgrl. I wouldn't want to stop anyone doing HW if they got as much out of it as you and your family clearly do. But it does cause such stress for some - why should it be compulsory in those cases?

And I especially agree with your last paragraph. The thing that worries me most of all is that it simply isn't fair. It's yet another way in which already disadvantaged children are set up to fail.

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Original poster
Solopower1 · 18/10/2012 23:27

Xpost Ponders - that was to your last but one post about the teaching to the test etc.

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elastamum · 18/10/2012 23:32

I used to do similar cheating with my dyslexic son. A piece of English could take hours. We used to do it verbally. I would type it up as we went and he copied it down. I dont think the homework made one jot of difference to his grades, but it made our lives a misery thats for sure. Eventually, when we realised it was the writing that was the problem, we did all his exam revsion just by talking about stuff, and just ignored the endless worksheets that were sent home. He got mostly A's

GrimmaTheNome · 18/10/2012 23:33

incidentally, do any primary schools currently have designated maths or science or English teachers, or are classes still taught everything by their class teacher?

DDs did - but it was private. Also music, and a PE teacher who (unlike the others) wasn't also a class teacher. I don't think it cost the school any more to have these specialists (apart from the PE) - in fact I've an inkling they might have been paid bit less than state but were OK with that because their jobs were more satisfying.

It was a good thing -apart from the obvious, good for the girls to have from a young age women who described themselves as 'mathematician' and 'scientist' so there wasn't a hint of the 'girls aren't so good at maths/science' crap.

Original poster
Solopower1 · 18/10/2012 23:39

Elastamum - you sound like my sister! She spent several hours every night with her son who has Asperger's syndrome, patiently and consistently helping him by going over everything he had done at school and making sure he understood it. He has just graduated and has started his Master's degree. He would never have done it without her - which is not to undermine his own huge achievement - which he managed by sheer hard work.

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owlelf · 18/10/2012 23:51

DD (y1) has half term next week. She has come home with a very large piece of paper with a label in the middle which says "find out about bonfire night". Apparently she should use her own creativity to fill the paper with whatever she wants to. There is an additional note that reminds parents that the work and ideas should be the children's own. They have not covered this topic at school.

How on earth is she meant to "find out" about a new topic at age 5, without some help.

colditz · 19/10/2012 00:04

Leave her with ethe paper and some crayons, and let her draw whatever she likes all over the book. They'll catch on.

Ponders · 19/10/2012 00:04

most bonfires will be at the end of next week - will you be going to one, owlef? if so, she can just draw pictures of that, with captions Smile

if she happens to ask spontaneous questions, you could help her with those...

it is bonkers though

owlelf · 19/10/2012 00:18

I'm tempted coldiz

Ponders, we were going to a bonfire night 'thing' on 3rd November, homework will need to be in by then. So I may rethink our plans.

DD has worked hard this term and improved her reading, writing and basic maths. She will have a go at the homework, because she wants to please her teacher- but is all seems a bit too much for a 5yo.

Maybe, though the problem lies with me because I'm reluctant to just leave her to it. I can't resist the urge to try to help her to find out about the topic.

Anyway, rant over Blush.

Ponders · 19/10/2012 11:31

oh yes, sorry, owlelf, I've got my weeks mixed up. most LEAs break up next week (end of, that is) & then half terms are the week after next, with bonfire night conveniently at the end

\link{http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/events/bonfire_night/\there's BBC education page} & \link{http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/15351828\newsround with some pics}

you could talk her through those? there's no shame in helping (IMO) when they're that age & want to do it but couldn't work out what to ask you to find out themselves

sohia · 19/10/2012 18:02

I am like colditz. My DC finish school so late that by the time we get home there isnt time for the HW. I do not agree with it so I do it otherwise we would waste every night and weekends. It doesnt seem to affect how well they do in school tests.

Feenie · 19/10/2012 20:18

Homework is here to stay, I think Sad - they are firmly embedded within the new teaching standards, which came into effect in Sept 2012:

(Teachers will)
set homework and plan other out-of-class activities to consolidate and extend the knowledge and understanding pupils have acquire

Feenie · 19/10/2012 20:19

acquired Lost the d somehow Smile

Original poster
Solopower1 · 19/10/2012 20:26

The great homework debate was on the radio again this evening. They were talking about reading to/with your child. I hadn't thought of reading as homework - but, for the record, I think that is something that you should do with your childre, whenever you can - not necessarily school readers, but any story books they like.

I still think it would help to have a longer day, so that those children who can't be read to/with at home get the time after school with a local sixth-former or uni student instead. There's never enough time in class for one teacher to read individually with 20 children.

That's reminded me of another thing. My older children's school used to ask parents to come in and help with reading. There was a rota. I was only able to make it occasionally, but I loved it! The kids didn't mind me peering over their shoulder and occasionally helping them with a word. I couldn't understand why this parental involvement was not wanted in my youngest child's school.

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